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oh my God by the it's just so much nicer

asking the

questions having to answer how do how

does it feel to you be on the other side

so before this show Ali interview me for

my book coming out yeah how does it feel

on the the other side Oli I I quite like

being a podcast guest to be honest I

feel like I much prefer being a podcast

guest than making a YouTube video

because if you ask me a question it's

like if someone asks me a question I can

respond and I'm like in in flow I'm in

the zone all that kind of fun stuff but

if I'm just talking directly to a camera

and there's no one else in the room and

there's no energy then it feels a lot

harder so I'm kind of comparing this to

what it's like filming my own YouTube

video and this is just way nicer and

there's no response when you're filming

your own YouTube yeah exactly just the

freaking camera and just

like is that how you is that how you

feel yeah all the time all the time

what's the question you you wish people

ask you when they're like oh you're like

oh just give me that one question dude I

can't wait

oh do I have a question I wish people

ask me I find it flattering that people

would uh want to ask me anything

anything at all

um yeah is there a question I wish

someone would ask

me I don't know I've never thought about

it but mate that's a good question I'm

stumped I have no idea what where

someone would ask me take your

time

I wish someone would ask me something

like what's the last book you've read

that had an impact on you or something

like that because because I I always

have a new book that I've read that

that's had an impact on me so I feel

like that would be a a good way of me to

re surface the things that I've been

thinking about myself um

yeah what's the last book you've read

and that had an impact on you the last

book I read That's had an impact on me

is a weird one it's uh The Strangest

Secret by Earl Nightingale have you

heard have you heard of this guy I've

heard of it he's old school like radio

stuff he's like an old school 1950s us

radio guy who was motivational self-help

Guru back in the day um and the he wrote

he recorded this audio program in 1956

which is like the secret to success and

his like grandchildren turned it into a

Kindle ebook which I read

recently and it's really good I mean the

first half of it is really good but

basically this is the first book I've

read that has fully sold me on the idea

of setting goals basically the first

half of the book is is just like look

the secret to success in all areas of

life is basically you got to know what

you want and if you just know what you

want and like write it down somewhere

and just have a destination in mind then

everything else will just work out

everything else will take care of itself

as long as you know what you want and

I'm like huh that's quite nice he's just

basically saying that in a bunch of

different ways just know what you want

and so I've been seeing this a lot like

when when I help people with their

YouTube channels or their businesses and

stuff

the the question I always find myself

asking is what's what's the goal like

what are we actually trying to do here

because people will often come to me and

I I used to have this thing when I when

I would speak to my own coaches and my

own mentors and I'd be like Oh I'm

struggling with this this this and I'm

not sure whether to X or Y or Zed and

they would say okay let's zoom out a

little what's the goal and I'd always be

like stumped by that question because

I'm like I don't freaking know like um

make money have fun help people all this

kind of stuff and I never really had

Clarity on what my goal was and like

where I was actually trying to get to

but now that I'm kind of more in that

Coach position where I'm helping people

out and mentoring them and now that I've

read this book I'm like oh it's just so

helpful when you know what someone's

destination is because then you can help

them figure out like all of the chess

moves that would take to get there but

if someone doesn't know what they want

then it's like you know I was speaking

to a friend um a mutual friend of ours

earlier and she was like yeah I don't I

don't know what to make videos about I

was like okay I but like what's what's

the goal what are we trying to do here

and based on that we can brainstorm some

things to make videos about but it's

just H it's so so good figure out what

the goal is and just write it down

somewhere it seems in life it's easier

to get what you want but figuring out

what we want is harder yeah it's so hard

to figure out what you actually want and

there are so many people that I know and

I have this problem myself where it's

like struggling to figure out what to do

with my life is like a phrase that you

know I I often used to throw around and

I think take taking the time to Fig

actually figure that out it's not it's

not that hard to figure out because I I

think I think one of the problems is

that people feel like once they have

quote figured it out then it's a fixed

destination and they can't change but

actually the whole point of figuring it

out is just like setting yourself a

direction like the journey is what

matters but you can't have a journey

without a destination in mind that's not

to say you're going to be fixated on

that destination but at least it tells

you what direction to go in um there was

a thing that one of my mentors in

medical school said to me once ages ago

and he said this was around the time he

was like he was he asked me what

specialty I wanted to specialize in and

I was like I don't know I'm only in my

fourth year I've got another three years

to decide and blah blah blah and he was

like sure like you don't have to decide

right now but it's much easier to steer

a moving ship than a stationary ship and

I was like huh so he was like I'd

recommend you just pick something and

just go for it and then change course

along the way and I guarantee it's going

to be a good method and I was like okay

cool so I decided to go for plastic

surgery like reconstructive surgery and

then opportunities started coming my way

I started well I started seeing like oh

there's a conference there there's this

thing there I can attend this thing

there I could design that website for

that person there who I know is

connected to this like plastic surgery

organization started connecting with all

these people and I'm like all of a

sudden the universe trans conspired to

help me meet other people who are

plastic surgeons for me to realize that

okay I probably don't want this but it's

also really cool but what I do want is

this thing and by virtue of just taking

action and moving in that direction

something you talk about in billion

dollar weekend good things just started

to happen whereas when I was static and

I was like oh I need to figure it out

it's like sometimes figuring out where

you want to go is a case just about just

committing to the thing and not over

fixating on like oh I really need to

think so hard it's about where do you

feel you might like to go cool let's

start going in that direction and we can

always change course along the way you

got me remembering I did the best

boyfriend ever

strategy I was dating women this is two

women I dated years ago many years ago I

didn't know if it was a good

relationship I think all of us have done

that like I don't know if it's a good

job I don't know if it's a good thing I

was like well I'm just going to act like

it's the best relationship I've ever

been in and I'm going to treat them the

best they've ever had nice and then

after and I said I'm do for three months

and this is for two different women and

both times after I was the best I've

ever been like I can't I'm like this is

the best you're going to get out of me I

was like oh it's not a good relationship

for me I broke up but at least I

committed to being the best in that

relationship and then was able to make

that decision yeah it's pretty helpful

that sounds very helpful uh your book so

you just said the book that impacted you

the most the ear night Andale The

Stranger secre what do you want people

telling someone else about Feelgood

productivity o great question um what I

would love people to tell other people

about about feel good productivity is

man this book really taught me that the

secret to being productive is to find a

way to feel good is to find a way to

enjoy what you're doing um and I think

just that like that that is the core

message of the book if you find a way to

enjoy what you are doing you will be

more productive you'll be more creative

you'll be less stress you'll have more

energy to give to your work but also to

every other area of your life you'll be

able to sustain it for longer let find a

way to enjoy what you're doing that's

not to say only do things that you enjoy

that's very different because the only

people that only do things that they

enjoy are actually I don't know anyone

in the world who only does things that

they enjoy even people who are really

rich don't only do things that they

enjoy because we all have to do things

that at times do feel like work

sometimes as much as you enjoy it

writing a book or like going to the gym

or even spending time with your family

does feel like a bit of a chore even if

you enjoy it people who have kids say

that sometimes it's not it's not always

enjoyable so I'm not saying you have to

always enjoy it and you can only do

things that are fun I'm saying there's

always a way to take whatever you're

doing doing and approach it in a way

that makes it feel a little bit better

and if that's the one thing people take

away from it that will be that'll be a

win for me there's so I've read it and I

recommend it oh thanks there's a lot in

it yeah there's a lot there's and I love

how you have I think it's Labs or

experiments experiments yeah experiments

and there's just like there's a lot in

there what do you think is the one that

you've noticed as people have been

reading your book and passing the book

around that people are like this is the

one I'm like I'm going to think about

this

[Music]

more in in the first chapter the first

chapter is play and there's a really

simple experiment that you can try there

and it's just like a simple question to

ask yourself whenever you're doing

something that feels like a bit of a

grind which is to ask yourself what

would this look like if it were

fun like Tim Ferris has the has a

variant of this question what would this

look like if it were easy but my version

is what would this look like if it were

fun if you're struggling with studying

for that exam or writing that essay or

making that presentation or starting

that like writing that landing page

whatever the thing might be what would

it look like if it were actually fun and

normally if you ask that question

people can always come up with five or

10 different ways the thing that they're

currently doing could be made a little

bit more fun maybe it's background music

maybe it's doing it with friends maybe

it's like going down to the local coffee

shop and having a coffee and doing it on

your laptop from there rather than

sitting in your office like there's so

many different ways that we could

potentially find of making things fun

but it's a question we don't often ask

and that simple question is a thing that

seems to resonate with quite a lot of

people how did it feel to write the

book

H it felt

like it felt enjoyable at times it felt

like a grind at times it felt like a

battle with impostor syndrome a lot of

the time it felt

like

um scary I'm doing this thing that feels

scary because putting a book out into

the world feels like a scary thing

that's going to open me to you know bad

reviews and criticism and stuff it feels

scary it felt scary cuz it's like what

if it doesn't sell as many copies as

like I don't know I would like it to

sell even though I don't really know how

many copies I'd like it to sell um but

it also felt quite joyful at times along

the way where it was like when I was

researching something and things

suddenly came together and I was like oh

that's it like all this reading I've

been doing this is the one thing that is

like TI ties it all together so there

were parts of it that were super fun

parts of it that were less fun um but

now that I've done the process once I'm

excited to write feature books because I

know what I would do differently next

time oh so okay so I'm the oppos I'm one

and done I'm like this is my Best Book

it's the only book million dollar

weekend Oh interesting I want to write a

book every few years oh wow and then so

what did you what would you change or

what did you regret in this process yeah

I won't say if there's anything I

regretted because I learned from the

whole thing but what I would change is I

would have the title and the hook in

mind from day one before I even begin

writing um I

would

the way I want to approach future books

is I want to I want to have the title

sorted I want to I want to have the sort

of one paragraph sales page completely

nailed I want to send that to hundreds

of people to be like is this a grand

slam offer right now just just purely

based on the title and the one and the

one paragraph sales pitch once I know

that that is a grand slam offer and the

thing that the the core concept of the

book seems to resonate and people are

like yeah I would definitely buy that

then I would explode that into chapter

into chapter headings and then I would

AB test the [ __ ] out of those chapter

headings to test with the audience to

make sure it's like here are 50

different chapter titles what are the

top five that you'd be most interested

in reading about and getting the data

from the audience to be like hm if I

want to write a fitness book if and

maybe there's a chapter on like the most

productive ways to stretch maybe that

suddenly gets 80% of the votes and I'm

like oh okay cool interesting that's the

thing that people want to hear and then

I would approach that as the title of a

YouTube video CU I'm very good at making

YouTube videos and I've but I've never

written a book so this was a lot of like

uh trying to learn the thing from

scratch and working with the editors and

so much back and forth but I know how to

make a YouTube video so if I approached

it as like this book is 10 different

YouTube videos which all then you know

all the research I'm then doing for

those videos is for a YouTube video

where I test the ideas I turn it into

Twitter thread I test the ideas a bit

more I take the stuff that's good that's

resonating I put it into the book I

would do so much more of like a start

upy lean start upy kind of way of

writing a book this one was was very

different this one was a lot of just

like in the weeds in the research papers

in my own head um and I I would do

things differently next time I'm I'm I'm

happy with the way it turned out but it

was a lot more of a painful process then

I think I hope the second one will be

what was your productivity system to put

together the

book or approach yeah it changed a lot

so it took three years from start to

finish to get this book out how long has

a YouTube video take three

minutes yeah so it took three years so

in that time time I learned a lot about

myself I learned a lot about

productivity at the start I thought that

oh I mean how hard can it be it's like

I'm I type pretty fast I write I can

write 2,000 words a day a book is 60,000

words that's a one month job easy a book

is just a collection of blog posts

anyway right like you know books can

just be sumarized in the blog post like

all the only thing that a book is is

just a few points padded out with a load

of fluff th those were the stories I

told myself and so I wrote 2,000 words

in day one day two day three day four

and 8,000 words in I run out of material

I was like I've literally written

everything I can possibly think of and

I've got like 8,000 words out of a

65,000 word book uhoh this is bad um and

that was when I started I I dove into

the research myself and I started like

reading papers and stuff and coming

across like way more stuff I think

initially I tried to delegate that out I

was like oh I don't need to be doing the

research myself let me hire a research

assistant so I hired a research

assistant and he was really helpful but

it it was not the same as me doing the

research myself cuz like I've got the

Science Background I literally did a

degree in psychology where I was

literally reading research papers and

writing essays about them that was where

I ranked first in my university for that

particular year that particular degree

because I just love this [ __ ] and I was

trying too hard to delegate that process

away but now I realized that actually me

being in the weeds with it was really

fun really exhilarating and led to so

many more insights than Outsourcing it

to an

assistant and so your productivity was

it how did evolved so you wrote

everything in 8,000 words and then how

did that shift over the next few years

yeah then it was a lot of research a lot

of outlining I think the there was

another thing that might be useful for

people which is there were periods of

time where I was writing the book in

parallel with other things I was like

okay I'm going to do two hours of

writing in the morning and then I'm

going to do my this then I'm going to do

that then I'm going to do this and I

made very little progress on those those

weeks but there were weeks where I was

like the only thing I'm doing this week

is writing the next five

chapters that's literally the only thing

or the only thing I'm doing for the

whole day is to work on work on this

chapter and I'm going to get it done by

the end of the day those were the days

where I made tons and tons of progress

now people say that like oh but a a

writer only gets four productive hours

in a day so I was like okay if I spend

the first four hours writing that's good

but what I didn't realize is that you

got to take procrastination into account

got to take the screwing around into

account the sort of getting set up

getting a coffee going to the toilet

getting set up getting into the swing of

things and on days where I had anything

on the calendar other than writing I

didn't seem to make much progress but on

days where I the only thing I had to do

was just work on the book I made loads

of progress cuz I got into that head

that head space and I think this Works

differently for different people there

are some people who do a really good job

of like making small amounts of progress

consistently with a large number of

things but I think for me what I've

realized is going all in and fully

focusing on one thing at a time is way

more effective for me personally than

trying to do multiple things in parallel

as I was reading your book and I what I

noticed is there's just so many

different things you encourage people to

think about and test out experiment to

find the way that they're productive I

was trying to think about what is

productivity because on one hand I wrote

down productivity for me it's speeding

up your your track speed like that's my

first thing always and then I was like

okay that's is that productive and and I

was just trying to think about what is

productivity yeah for me productivity

is doing the things that matter to you

in a way that's intentional effective

enjoyable and sustainable there like

quite quite a lot that goes into it so

doing the things that matter to you in a

way that's intentional like you're

intentionally doing them you're

effectively doing them as in not like

screwing around you're having fun along

the way and it's sustainable and I think

if we can get to those things that is

when we're truly productive because yeah

you could be productive with like you

know I was big in keyboard short cuts

and typing speed and all that crap but

if you're working on the things that

don't really matter then all of that

productivity is wasted so there's some

element of like intentionality and

meaningfulness that's important here

yeah similarly if you're sprinting and

doing the thing and burning out that's

also not productive so it's it's got to

be sustainable and like the the whole

the whole thesis of the book and partly

of your book is that the process should

be enjoyable because if the process is

enjoyable you're just going to be more

productive but it's also going to be

more fun more sustainable more

energizing all the good things will

happen if you can find a way to enjoy

the process itself so to me productivity

is like all of those things which some

people would say is cheating because I'm

being I'm defining productivity very

holistically but that's how I think

about it so it's my book I can do what I

want yeah who is someone in your

audience or your team that you've seen

that you've changed and help them

through productivity what's what's a

story that comes to

mind one of one of the guys on our team

his name is Tintin he's our YouTube

producer and he also loves all these

like productivity books prent

development books and he's read he's

read a lot of them and so he was really

helpful in giving feedback on the early

drafts and he just sort of read a draft

in like like a year ago or something and

like six months later he he just said to

me you know that first chapter I've been

actually I've been actually applying

that in those insights for the last six

months months and it's completely

changed the way that I approach my he

he's doing a side business approach my

side business I was like oh how is that

because the first chapter is about play

it's about approaching work in the

spirit of play he was like yeah you know

just a Post-It note what would this look

look like if it were fun the daily

Adventure it's like that's a framing

where every at the start of every day

you ask yourself what is today's

adventure going to be and that's just

like a more fun way of asking what's my

biggest most important task for the day

and tinon asks himself this question

every day and he's like it's just

completely moved the needle for my

productivity and also for my happiness

to frame work in this way and I was like

oh that's cool it's nice that like he

read it and six months later the Insight

was still still holding strong it's

um I don't think people realize like

what it takes to make a

book I feel I bond with with other

authors so much of like the pain of the

process and like how long and audious it

is I hit up Tim Ferris I've never I know

20 years and I was like yeah I'm going

to do a book I'm thinking about it for a

long time he's like it's hard yeah it's

really and there's only there's kind of

one

shot you know you do the YouTube video

like we do YouTube or tweets or emails

okay video didn't work I'm gonna do

another video I'm do another like

there's a proposal to a book to copy

editing to to being published and um

it's just yeah it's such a process I'm

sure you you've experienced a lot of

highs and lows as you were saying and uh

I don't know I I do know some of these

things in life I've been thinking about

this it's like what's the hardest thing

I can do and then do that doesn't mean

it's always going to be easy but like

this sounds like this book for you is a

real

challenge yeah I feel like I learned a

lot through the process and even if it

doesn't it's not a commercial success I

am still I'm I'm proud of what we

collectively have created as in me and

our editors who have been amazing

throughout the whole process and our

research assistants um and even if it's

not a commercial success I've learned so

much along the way about how to write a

book and how to put research together

and how to kind of the marketing side of

things and all of that stuff like yeah

well it was kind of when we were talking

earlier today I thought was really

powerful and really interesting is that

you started your main YouTube channel at

what age uh 24 24 yeah you were

commenting how I think at 16 you did web

design and then you had an affiliate

site then you did all these things and

you started all this stuff that

eventually LED you to get to YouTube at

24 which has led you to success with it

I think you would say it's success by 29

and it's getting going yeah you know we

talked about starting and same with this

book it's interesting you you said

something kind of in passing it's like I

do believe a lot of us have fixed

mindsets I read a book and that's the

book which for me I'm happy with one

book but this is your first of many yeah

right and the fact that you got it going

LED you to think about all right well

how do I want to do it differently next

time that's such a powerful lesson

throwing out there yeah which is if you

want to get somewhere great just

starting out whether it's writing

whether it's content whether whatever it

is and then now in the future you know

how you want to improve that exactly

yeah and you know one of the things I I

love is you know another book I've read

recently is the practice by Seth Goden

it's really good basically it's the

whole book is just lots of different

ways of saying focus on the process

don't worry about the outcome um and his

whole thing is like if you making one

thing one blog post every week it means

that you're not that attached to each

individual blog post it's like ah it's a

bit of a dud that's okay I'll do I'll do

another one next week and again and

again and again and again and I think

having that approach is actually very

useful for writing a book as well cuz

this was a threee long project but like

Ryan holiday you know WR writes books

every one to one to two years and some

of them are less bestselling than others

like courage is calling no one cares

about courage but discipline is Destiny

man people love discipline or obstacle

is the way is you know still still

selling ego the enemy is still selling

but no one really reads trust me I'm

lying or like very few people read The

Perennial seller even though very good

read all of them oh

nice and it's like you know he's he's

just prolific he's just producing all

this stuff and

it's in a way I I admire that approach

to Creation I think yes there's there's

a lot of the the the counter example is

like James CLA has got one book and has

sold more copies than all of Ryan

holiday's 15 books combined but

also I don't know I think there's

something really nice about the constant

creative act of learning researching

synthesizing and putting something out

there and saying hey you know this is

what I've done take it or leave it I

hope I hope you find it helpful and

doing that a lot and to me that feels

like a good way of living life um it's

not it's not everyone's cup of tea but I

can imagine myself at 50 continuing to

write books and continuing to learn new

things and being like yeah I want to

write the next book how do you figure

out what to be productive

on yeah this comes down to that

conversation around goal setting it's

like figuring out where you want to go

the way I approach it is

like a few different ways so essentially

in in each of the major areas of my life

so work health and relationships I have

a a goal in mind or two or three of like

okay this is where I want to go and I I

like the idea of annual planning of like

okay I I in in the book I call it the 12

month celebration 12 months from now you

and I are sitting here we're having a

conversation what are we celebrating

what are we celebrating in our health

what are we celebrating in our

relationships for me in health what I'd

love to be oh no a man last 12 months

I've been hitting the gym three or four

times a week and I've done that without

fail even when I was traveling even when

I was ill I was just hitting the gym at

Le you know fairly consistently and now

check me out check out the biceps I

would love to be celebrating that with

you 12 months from now cool that that

tells me that that's something I I'd

like to be productive in I'd like to

find a way to make the process of going

to the gym uh intentional effective

enjoyable and sustainable nice when it

comes to relationships you know this

time next year I'd love to be married

I'd love to be having a kid on the way

you're going to you're going to be a dad

by this time next year and we're both

going to be celebrating how present we

are as like as partners and as fathers

and all this kind of stuff that would be

really cool so that's now I can be

productive towards that it's like okay

that's my goal what does that actually

mean it means I should probably I I want

to do like two date nights a week with

the girlfriend fiance wife whatever the

situation is uh I want to make sure I

finish work by 500 P p.m. every day so

that I can spend time with the family I

want to make sure I do my workouts in

the morning when maybe the kid is asleep

like all all of that kind of stuff by

knowing that by knowing the thing we are

trying to celebrate 12 months from now

we can then figure out the how to

getting there and to me that involves

figuring out okay what does it look like

on the calendar what do it look like on

the to-do list like what are the what

are the mental models I need to be

holding in my mind to act to act in a

way that will make it very likely that

I'll be celebrating with you 12 months

from now and then in the book in the

Final Chapter we talk about like the

long-term the medium-term time Horizon I

I I really enjoy thinking about like

what would you want people to say at

your funeral as like a way a sort of

like who's the sort of person you'd like

to be uh what would you like written in

your orbituary so I wrote my own

orbitary the other day just I was doing

the exercise and it's quite helpful for

figuring out what I wanted to do with my

life cuz I'm like if you if you figure

out like what would you like people to

write about you when you're dead about

like your accomplishments your

achievements the sort of person you were

gives you a pretty good idea of like

okay cool am I going in is is that in is

is that the path I'm on or do I need to

change course a little bit so there's

all sorts of ways to figure out what you

should be productive in I think part of

it is about thinking long term and part

of it is thinking about like the

different what do I actually want in

these different areas of life M cuz once

you figure out what you want it's like

okay you can then figure out the plan to

get there but I think a lot of people

struggle with figuring out what they

want what do you in in terms of being

productive what are you saying no

to yeah these days I say no to anything

that doesn't take me towards the things

that I know that I want um and it's

going to it's going to keep keep coming

back to that so these days what I say

often what I say no to is um something

that helps me make money but that where

the process of that doesn't feel good so

for example uh if it's a sponsorship

deal with a brand that I don't actually

use I'd say no to that because I don't

need the money I don't I don't want the

money anymore if it's like hey can you

travel to this random country when

you're in the middle of a vacation with

your girlfriend to give a random talk

and we'll pay you 50k for it I'm like uh

actually I'm at a point in my life where

I can comfortably say no to that so

things like that where I I want to make

sure that the things I'm doing are not

I'm not just doing for the money cuz

doing doing something just for the money

is a terrible reason to do something

once you're at a point where you don't

where you no longer need to be

optimizing for making money once you've

got your family's basic needs met what

anything what stood out to you about the

obituary that you wrote for

yourself what stood out about it was

that

um like I I I wrote something to the

effect of Ali abdal was one of the world

well was one of the greatest teachers in

the world he throughout throughout his

Decades of creating writing and videos

and stuff he he like harmoniously

integrated loads of disciplines to help

people live their best life in terms of

Body Mind heart and soul and I as I was

writing that like this idea of Body Mind

heart and soul came to me I was like huh

that's interesting I must have heard it

from somewhere because it didn't just

come to me spontaneously but like like

Body Mind heart and soul that actually

feels pretty good like productivity sort

of mind I want to do a book about

Fitness at some point once I go on my

own fitness journey that's about the

body heart I mean that's relationships I

want to do relationships book at some

point and soul is like

spirituality I want to write a

spirituality book I was like huh that's

pretty cool like if that is my body of

work in the next like a few decades Body

Mind heart and soul and then my YouTube

content or whatever platforms are around

then podcast you know I'm fairly

platform agnostic the stuff that I teach

is about Body Mind heart and soul that's

freaking sick and I was like and now I

have this vision for like the sort of

body of work that I want to do and maybe

it'll change but at least for now I I

have this idea of like that's that's

kind of where I'm getting to and then

alongside it was like you know alongside

all this stuff while he was like being a

legend traveling around the world

teaching cool stuff he was always humble

always down to earth prioritized his

family took care of his health like his

kids and his grandkids were were with

him when he died peacefully in their

nice family home and it's like you know

keeping in mind that like that's the

thing I want to do for work doing all

this teaching you stuff around Body Mind

heart and soul but actually I want to

prioritize my family first and I want to

be there for my kids and for the wife

and for grandkids and all that stuff and

I don't want worldly success to come at

the expense of personal relationships so

that's the obituary and so that's a

pretty reasonable painting of the

destination I'm like great let's stop

moving in that direction I love that

yeah how come I I was looking at the

back of your book uh Feelgood

productivity and it said Dr Ali abdall I

was like oh [ __ ] he actually is a doctor

oh yeah forgot know I mean I know I've

been you a while how come you didn't put

it on the front of the

book I felt a bit uncomfortable putting

it on the front of the book because I'm

no longer practicing and I didn't want

the doctor thing to be a key part of the

story I I I want I want it's a key part

of the back story but it's not part of

the forward story it's like that was a

previous life so we put it in the back

of the book cuz it's kind of cool it's

like oh he's a doctor as well um but I

didn't want to put it at the front for

that reason but you you do include

stories about you know your opening of

the story is is you as a new medical

doctor and making a mistake yeah and

then there's stories throughout it about

your medical experience I was just kind

of like I forgot until I saw in the back

of the book yeah yeah it was it was a a

conscious decision this is why my

YouTube channel has never been called a

Dr Ali because I I when you when you

lead with that it's like it puts a

certain expectation and a certain

attachment to that identity which I

don't really want anymore and actually

was um I was interviewed on Dar CEO like

three years ago back when it was still a

small podcast two years ago and none of

that was about me being a doctor like he

didn't even mention I was a doctor and

the title of the podcast was the

productivity expert and I was like huh

interesting I've never I kind of like

that I've never I've never been called a

productivity expert that's cool and huh

I guess people people got a lot of value

from that and we didn't discuss medicine

at all cuz I think one of the stories I

told myself was if I'm not a doctor then

no one's going to listen to my stuff and

actually I'm not a doctor anymore I I've

left that behind and people still seem

to Vibe with my stuff so it's like great

that's quite liberating how do you think

more people can break free from

certificates oo yeah my brother's a

doctor as well and he always sees these

YouTubers Y and authors who are not

certified yep they have no certificate

to be a business Expert I mean you even

see people on YouTube like they're

teaching business they don't even have

businesses

yeah and so I I do think that's a shift

in society where a doctor will make 200

a YouTuber who was teaching about doctor

other things can make millions and it's

an interesting shift just in society

yeah I think the certificate things is

is is interesting obviously there are

some areas of life in which

certification is important like you

probably don't want your neurosurgeon to

be operating on you without the appr

like degree and license and certificate

but if

there's I don't know in a lot of other

areas like do if I wanted to hire a

guitar teacher do they need any

qualification other than they are good

at teaching guitar probably not maybe

there's guitar teacher qualifications

but I don't really care like can they

play and can they teach well it's like

that's what I'm judging them on there's

a the guy who taught me to play guitar

is called Justin Guitar he's on he's on

YouTube I followed his beginner's course

I have no idea what his qualifications

are but he's a good te teacher and I

liked his Vibe it's like who cares what

his his qualifications are and I think

um people who have built their career

and their life on credentials will

always find that difficult to stomach um

my mom really struggles with this um I

was telling her at one point about

Thiago for's course building a second

brain and her first question was what

are his qualifications and I was like I

have not the foggiest she was like what

which university did he go to I was like

I don't know I'm sure it's on his

website but like who cares the point is

he's teaching me how to do digital note

taking which is a thing he's been

obsessed with for 10 years and I'm

learning from him

who cares what degree he got whether he

did a degree in economics or like

political science or like who who cares

um so I think increasingly in the

world the PE people will people will

vote with their eyeballs like there are

a bunch of people who do like maths

tutorials on YouTube and no one know who

cares if they're a math professor being

a professor doesn't mean you're good at

teaching it means you're good at

research like the medical school

professors we had at cambri Cambridge is

a [ __ ] hu huge Name Medical School

almost none of the professors were

actually good at teaching there was a

tiny number who were good at teaching

because the way you become a professor

is not by being a good teacher it's by

being a good researcher and these guys

are like oh God damn it I've got to to

teach my lecture I just want to be in my

lab doing my research whereas the people

who are the best teachers was the

student in the year above me like or two

years above me who's just doing it for

fun they don't have a qualification

they're not a doctor yet but they're

like they know the subject really well

they understand me they have empathy for

where I am because they did it last year

they've got really good notes they have

good vibes they have energy they bring

sweets to the classroom like that's the

person I want to learn from and there's

a place of learning from experts and

credentials and stuff but I think

increasingly the world is moving towards

if you can actually do the thing that

you're claiming to do and people like it

and people are getting value from it

then who cares what certification you

have again provided it's not like

neurosurgery or stuff like that yeah

yeah you don't really even that you

don't really ask your doctor when you're

coming into emergency room like uh can I

see your degree if you have an emergency

is like I hope this person can help yeah

exactly what have you learned about

effective teaching through teaching

yourself so much and creating a book

about teaching people how to be

productive and creating all this YouTube

and courses what have you talk about

what what makes an Effective Teacher

what are some stories or things you've

seen that that you teach one thing that

I keep on coming back to is that

teaching is a performance

art and the best teachers are really

good entertainers and they can tell a

really good story and they can keep you

engaged through an otherwise something

that might otherwise be boring we had a

great teacher in first year who was

doing physiology he was a Canadian

lecturer actually he was like the best

guy we had teaching us that whole year

and he just made it so engaging he was

he he didn't have PowerPoint slides even

he was like he would like draw diagrams

on a little overhead projector like old

school even though he could have used

PowerPoint or like interative whiteboard

or anything and he was just really good

at explaining things and he just like

draw a diagram and explain in a

charismatic way with some storytelling

and some analogies and like the heart

like imagine the heart as like a little

a little pump with with that's connected

to like four pipes and here's the little

pump and here are the four pipes okay

cool now imagine when you squeeze the

pump here's what's happened what's going

to happen when you squeeze the pump well

a line's going to go there a line's

going to go there it was so engaging and

so nice compared to some of the other

lecturers that were like dense

PowerPoint slide loads of references

handouts that are just boring they were

just boring it's like I think a huge

part of being an Effective Teacher is

being engaging and being fun and being a

it's it's a performance art um I used to

do close-up magic back in the day when I

when I was at University and one of my

dreams is to have my own stage show kind

of like Darren Brown meets Jay Shetty

meets like Tony Robins is is um and BEC

and I think there's something around

people who are into

entertaining often tend to be good

teachers as well at least from what I've

seen on YouTube and in real life so I

think that's a really underrated part of

teaching what do you what did your

parents do for learing both my parents

are doctors so my mom is a single parent

my parents divorced when I was like one

year old old so I never really knew my

dad uh but he's a doctor in Pakistan and

my mom is a psychiatrist so spe

specializes in mental health disorders

and stuff like that um yeah did you do

you ever interact with your dad not

really we hang out with him every few

years when we go back to Pakistan grab a

bite to eat or something like that how's

that kind of awkward um I don't really

know him that well it sort of feels like

a distant uncle that you s know that

you're related to but like don't really

feel that close to um but you know it's

a Vibe it's a

Vibe yeah I think like not growing up

with a dad it's it's it's very hard to

imagine what it's like having a dad so I

don't it's you know my mom sometimes

asks me she's like you know do you ever

regret that you didn't have a father

growing up and

like it's like if someone if if if

someone I don't know is is not able to

see color from birth they're seeing in

black and white they they can't even

comprehend what it's like to see color

it's like no I don't spend any time

thinking like wishing I had a dad or

wishing yeah yeah it's just not even

something that remotely crosses my mind

um

but I do Wonder I've I've seen patterns

one I similarly my parents divorced

early luckily my stepdad was great and

my father I think a lot of my business

was to try to get him to acknowledge me

oh okay and I think that's true for like

you know Jeff Bezos was uh adopted Steve

Jobs no Jeff basos a stepdad Steve Jobs

adopted um there's a lot of you know

kind of similar patterns so I wonder if

and like I was just curious if that

impacted you or how you think that that

maybe played a role or not yeah I don't

know I think one thing that I did miss

out on a little bit

is like not having a father figure

growing up means that I had zero

examples of what like positive

masculinity looked like in

that you know

like I have I have no idea I had no idea

what it what does it look like if

someone is upset for a man be the one

comforting them cuz the only examples I

saw of someone comforting someone else

was my mom or the female teachers who I

had in Primary School don't have any

mail teachers in primary school and so

it's like that's a bit weird what does

that actually look like and some people

might be listening to this saying that

like oh it's the same as when a female

Comforts someone it's like no it's not

like the way a the the the way a Man

shows like reassurance and comfort is

not the same as a maternal nurturing

figure like a mom showing the same thing

it would just be kind of weird weird

especially if it was a stranger it's

like guys do have to interact in a

different way than women do naturally

and I've just I I see Zero I've seen

zero examples of that so a lot of like

when my girlfriend was upset for example

and she was describing how her dad would

come for her when she was young I was

like whoa that's just like mind-blowing

that what was it like what' she say oh

she was just like yeah he would just you

know come up to me he would Crouch down

to my level he would ask if I was okay

he would put a hand on my shoulder he

would tell me everything's going to be

all right he would give me a little

sandwich from his bag and I'm like oh

that's cute

whereas you know when like my mom would

do it it would be much more of a much

more of a show of like oh honey come

here is like like just a different way

of communicating and I always find

myself fascinated to see like what does

how how do dads interact with kids in a

way that's different to how moms

interact with kids so I've started

keeping a lookout for those things now

did your mom date no she never remarried

here never yeah so my mom's single

parent she moved us to Africa it was me

my brother and my grandma and my mom so

my mom was working full-time as a doctor

doctor at the time in Africa and my

grandma was sort of raising me and my

brother and then my mom would get home

from work and like we'd all have dinner

as a family and my grandma was a teacher

so she sort of like homeschooled us a

little bit while we were in school as

well we in Africa uh lutu what lutu is

like a country surrounded by South

Africa oh really like right at the

bottom of South Africa with within South

Africa there is a country called lutu

and another country called Swaziland and

I've heard that one I think yeah so luu

is like a a random country that most

people haven't heard of and how long did

you live there before like five years

what age is age like 1 to six oh

interesting do you do you remember

anything from that time yeah quite a lot

like when yeah had a great time it was

just like it it feels weird to talk

about now but it was just normal growing

up because it's like when that's all you

know that's you think that's totally

normal um so went to the local school

Good Vibes mostly black kids I was

surprised I I remember coming to the UK

for the first time going to school I was

like whoa everyone's my skin color cuz

everyone was white and you know I look

more you know in in a school of black

people I I stand out but in a when when

I saw a school of white people it was

such a contrast I was like whoa that's

mental I've never seen all these white

people before um but like yeah it was

good

vibes do you know why your pars broke up

um my mom never has never quite given me

the juicy details of it she says that

they had the differences and she sort of

believes it at that and then was this in

Pakistan came met yeah then how did she

end up going to Africa um it was kind of

random at at a wedding she was Vis she

was attending a guy she was sitting next

to happened to be the guy who was sent

by the queen to go to lutu to set up a

hospital there for the British Empire

and he just happened to meet my mom at a

wedding and my mom was like oh you work

in Africa interesting I've always wanted

to work in Africa just because it seemed

cool and he was like well do you want a

job we're looking for doctors and she

was like huh actually yeah let's go so

she took me and my brother and her mom

and we just all moved to Africa from

Pakistan it's kind kind of kind of Rogue

that is Rogue what are there ways how

did your mom raise you and then what

what were house

rules what the house

rules there was a there was a big

emphasis on education so like you know

from Africa we moved to the UK because

of education so my mom my mom and

grandma always valued our our our

education as like being the ultimate

thing and so there was a real emphasis

on you know doing well in school uh I

was lucky because was naturally smart

and so I just did well in school by

default but also I think the vibe of and

you know I got I got this messaging from

my grandma more than my mom of like you

know it's like a great thing to get into

a good University and you know the words

Oxford and Cambridge kind of being

thrown around when we were like 8 years

old I was like yeah I want to go to I

want to go to Oxford or Cambridge you

know that that kind of thing so that

developed within me it it wasn't like

there were like you have to do one in

school with like a stick it was more

like I wanted to do one in school but

I'm pretty sure that cuz the messaging I

got was like doing well in school is a

good thing to do and so I had that fire

inside me um I think like growing up cuz

my mom was a single parent working as a

doctor in the UK her salary was like 28k

30k something like that like we had

enough money for the you know for the

basics of life but not enough money to

like go on fancy holidays or like to get

PlayStations for a birthday or anything

like that and I think that was a very

good thing because it meant that I had

this like base security of like where

you know things are totally fine we live

in a nice house and go to nice school

and we had enough money to send us on

like the school ski trip and stuff but

for the luxuries like a PlayStation or a

laptop or things like that I had to save

up for those things and I had to save up

by you know birthday money that I would

get as gifts and E presents and stuff

like that but also I got myself a

part-time job teaching maths and private

tutoring and trying to make websites on

the internet and I think had we had more

disposable income growing up I may have

had less of an entrepreneurial Drive

than I did and so me and my brother

would be thinking like oh man if we can

just make £200 this year we'll be able

to get an extra monitor for a desk setup

and stuff like that when we were when we

were kids whereas I had friends who

would get like PlayStation 3's and stuff

stuff for their birthdays and they had

no entrepreneurial drive so I I I wonder

if there was something around growing up

with enough money so as to not worry

about like poverty but not so much that

like you had everything handed to you

that developed that desire to make money

on the internet which I am so grateful

for did your mom trip out when you quit

doctor or did she was she happy about it

uh she tripped out quite a lot she's

she's over it now but at the time she

was like cuz you know for her I think

for immigrant parents the whole thing is

like Safety and Security

and medicine is a very safe and secure

profession and so to trade something

that's safe and secure for like this

YouTube thing like what the the hell

like where is this going to go like what

if it doesn't last all of those things

are fears that I had and fears that were

magnified hundredfold in my mom because

she was like oh my goodness um but she's

gotten over it now so yeah it's pretty

chill these days does she watch all the

videos no she's kind of stopped now I

think I don't know really yeah she she

she listens to the podcast that I do

with my brother but like to be honest we

we produce too much content

like it's it's a full-time job to keep

up with

it yeah um what was the most trouble you

got in as a kid most trouble I got in oh

one time I was trying to learn I think I

was like 13 I was trying to teach myself

how to program uh viruses uh like um and

I found this like article about how to

write a trojan horse as like a back door

into a computer and I I had the code on

like a USB memory stick and I only had

one USB memory stick which was also the

thing I used for my school work and so I

plugged it in just randomly in one of

the school computers to do my school

transferring PowerPoint files or

whatever and the school's antivirus

system picked it up because it was a

really unsophisticated basic ass Trojan

that I'd written just a just as a sort

of tutorial project and then the

antivirus flagged up then I got a call

from the Deputy Headmaster being like

come to my office he took me to the

Headmaster got super got like major

bollocking by by the Headmaster of the

school who was like this big imposing

guy I had I had to come in I he they

said they were going to suspend me from

school for a week and I was like the

good kid I was like he never been in

trouble I was always like top of the

class it's like this was very

uncharacteristic for me but I wrote like

a nice apology letter and so instead all

I had to do was come into school for a

few days during the holidays and they

were like well this guy likes computers

so let's just get him to like open up

every computer in the school and just

get rid of the packets of chips and the

chewing gum and the dust with a little

Hoover Hoover up the inside of the

school computers so thankfully I managed

to get away without getting suspended

from school you you you see I was such a

badass I was I was really cool as you

can tell you're smoking cigarettes

exactly that was so cool is this a

private school or public it was a public

grammar school so it's like a selective

public school okay yeah how did you know

you were smart when you were younger you

said you knew you were smart

did I know I was smart I mean uh I could

I could get good grades without having

to work too hard for it and I saw that

like the kids around me were really

struggling and I seemed to not and I was

like huh I I I don't think I told myself

that oh it's cuz I'm

smart I that I think that's a a

realization I made off to the

fact what do you what do you what do you

believe is the hardest thing you've

worked

[Music]

on good question what's the hardest

thing I've worked on probably this book

went to medical school yeah I mean

honestly like Med medical schools is

isn't that hard like once you get in

like it's quite hard to get in but if

you have really good grades it's it's

not that hard to get in it's hard to get

in if you don't have good grades now

you're then you're fighting an uphill

battle but I had like amazing grades and

I prepared for the interviews and stuff

like I was going to get in it would have

been weird if I didn't get in given

those unfair advantages that I had once

you're in medical school it's not that

hard because there's a lot of support

you've got all friends around you

everyone's trying to do well it's really

hard to fail like you have to kind of

try to flunk out at least at least in

the UK

um and so there have been very few

things that I've like like failed at as

such and very few things that I've i'

I've felt like I had to really level up

and really step up to get good at and

honestly this book while trying to

juggle the business and everything else

that was going on in life just honestly

making the time to just write every day

or find this find this period of Sol you

just focus on writing and trying to

craft a thesis that felt a bit novel and

trying to do the research at the same

time it was like writing a really long

thesis well I mean like a PhD program is

three years and you end up with like a

60,000 word dissertation this is a

65,000 word dissertation from threeyear

like PhD program of like looking at

research papers and stuff while doing

that alongside running the business

honestly I would say writing this book

has been the hardest thing I've

done what you said you had unfair

advantages to get into medical school

yeah in that I had good grades and a

supportive family and stuff which a lot

of people don't which is why it's hard

to get in for a lot of people um do you

think your success is rep replicable

like other people can copy and get to

where you

are uh depends I I don't think someone

who is in medical school now could start

a YouTube channel in exactly the same

way that I did and do it because that

was six years ago times have changed but

if if if by success we mean Successful

YouTube channel and business around it

then yeah easily well well sorry not not

easily it's simple but not easy it's

simple in that the formula is pretty

obvious it's like find a way to create

useful educational videos once or twice

a week and just do it for seven

years it's not it's not that hard and

just aim to be a little bit better each

time even though that's unsustainable so

don't even do that forever because you

can't be BL better every time just focus

on being as useful as possible and sell

a course off the back of what people

asking are asking you for every now and

then like that's literally the formula

and anyone could do it like someone

listening to this right now now if they

really wanted to could teach themselves

a thing and then just make videos about

the thing now that they've taught

themselves the thing whatever the thing

is yeah and to do it for a very long

time it's like almost impossible to not

succeed with something if you do it for

long

enough and as you say million dollar

weekend people just quit too early yeah

there are so few people who make it past

100 videos there are so few podcasts

that make it past episode number three

even fewer that make it past episode

number 20 like for a podcast to get more

than 20 episodes oh man the person

making the podcast have been been a real

trooper like sticking it out I'm on 750

videos like it's it's it's not that hard

it's

just just got to make the videos every

week and just do it forever what kept

you sticking with it for seven years um

I think in the early days it was faith

and patience faith that something would

work out and patience that I'm willing

to wait until it does and enjoying the

process and trying and focusing on the

process rather than the outcome like I'm

just going to focus on making one video

a week and I know something good will

come of this I don't know what it is but

I have faith that something good will

come of this and then once the momentum

started like momentum then sustains the

thing it's it's like the the the the

effort at the start is sort of like

kindling the fire getting the fire

started but once the fire is going like

all you need to do is not screw it up

like but as the as the channel started

to gain momentum now it's like there's

new views and new comments and new likes

and all that stuff is motivating there's

money coming in it's like [ __ ] I'm

making $5 a day now man I could get my

myself a takeaway every day and YouTube

would I'm now making $50 a day $50 a day

I can literally eat forever and YouTube

would fund it now I'm making like

freaking $1,000 a day and it's

completely absurd and it's like all of

these things like start to snowball over

time then actually a conversation with

you three years ago where you were like

oh man you know you you've easily got a

$1 million business on your hands I was

like H

interesting let me see what products I

could sell which kind of sparked this

course creation thing which then took us

from 100K to a million in that year and

like that's cool there's momentum behind

that once something starts to be

successful all you have to do is not

screw it up and just sort of ride the

wave but to create the wave in the first

place requires the faith and the

patience that things will work out who

is the coolest channel that you that's

gone through your YouTuber Academy that

you're most proud

of so there is

a there's a friend of ours called Izzy

who Izzy cely who started her YouTube

channel as like her she started during

the YouTuber Academy like the course and

she she was also she was also medic a

medical student at the time um now

working as a doctor and she made videos

about like personal development and

stuff but she made a video about how to

learn Mandarin cuz she taught herself

Mandarin in like 6 months and that video

went viral and that was only video like

15 it took me 85 videos to go viral she

went viral on video number 15 and her

Channel's just crossed 500,000

subscribers and she's only made like 50

videos videos for context I got 1,000

subscribers when I made 52 videos and

she's got 500,000 subscribers with 50

with 50ish videos so she's just like

taken all the lessons that we teach in

the course and just sort of supercharged

them another like famous alumnus is

Chris Williamson he was on he was on

100,000 subscribers his channel was

called modern wisdom he didn't know

anything about YouTube he took the

course he leveled up his titles and

thumbnails rebranded to Chris Williamson

he's on 1.5 million now and just keeps

on climbing obviously he's put in loads

of work I cannot take any credit for his

success but

we have a nice video testimonial from

him where he's like man I was such a

noob and then I took the course and then

I knew how to do YouTube so I just

applied it to my podcast and so he's

he's blown up as

well um few things and then we'll uh go

get some sushi amazing you got to

YouTube but you you when we were talking

before walk me through every business

you've done okay not not in detail but I

think this is just such an interesting

thing we talked about experiment and

swings and I didn't realize how many

swings you took before you even got to

starting the YouTube stuff maybe like

the of of these things from when you got

going yeah okay so here are all the

businesses that I've tried to start

firstly when I was 13 I decided to start

a forum which was going to teach kids

how to be spies because I loved like the

Cherub and Alex Ryder books back in the

day and I was like okay this is a forum

we're going to teach teenagers how to

pick locks and how to do martial arts

and all that [ __ ] that was a total flop

obviously then it was trying to build

online games so I contacted blizzard I

contacted Nintendo I contacted a few

authors who admired and I kept on asking

for permission to turn their

intellectual property into games all of

them either ignored me or they said no

or they said sorry we've already sold

the movie rights and that comes with the

video game rights then I built a sort of

web design studio which was basically

just me as a 14-year-old in my bedroom

but I was a web design studio so I tried

to make money by Shilling myself to

friends and family and also on like

freelance marketplaces back in the day

and so I in total made like $300 across

like8 years from doing that so not very

much money at all business number four

that I attempted to start was uh a niche

affiliate marketing site so Starcraft 2

the video game had just come out and I

watched this online course on how to

make money on the internet with

affiliate marketing and there was this

guy selling a Starcraft to guide for

like $50 and the affiliate deal for that

was like 50% so if you sold his guide

you would get $25 so I tried making a

website where protos which is one of the

races in Starcraft 2 has protos build

orders was the SEO term I was trying to

rank for and I was like if I can just

make the build ERS for all the protos of

like in this or this is the order of

buildings that you place with order of

pylons and Order of nexuses and order

like the timings people are searching

for that [ __ ] people will read my

articles on wordpress.com they'll buy

the thing and I'll make $25 I made no

money from that that was business number

four or five I've forgotten where we are

then I decided to do a multi-level

marketing thing where Blockbuster video

at the time was doing an affiliate

system where if you got someone to sign

up for Blockbuster you would even if it

was just a free trial that they canceled

they'd pay $1250 and I was like sick I'm

in so what I did was I made one of these

websites where you could sign up to

Blockbuster and if you referred 25 other

people you would win a Xbox 360 or

something cuz we would make enough from

that affiliate commission I made $50

from that the way I made it is cuz one

of my friends had four sisters so he

signed up with all four of their credit

cards and I got $1250 time four so I

made £50 and I got that as a weird check

I I I was on a school trip and my mom

rang me up on she was like you've got

this weird check in the mail it's like

an electronic check that says Millions

zero hundreds of thousands zero tens of

thousands zero and it's like I I don't

know if you've seen these like

electronic programmatically generated

checks I was like tens five and so the

total is like0 0 Z $50 so I cashed that

check I was like yes I've made passive

income on the internet that was business

number five business number six was um I

tried to build another game after I knew

more about coding that game did not work

business number seven I think was the

one that finally succeeded and business

number seven was

when I made courses to help people get

into med school and I built a website

for that and I marketed nationally I did

some lead generation on forums and stuff

I was giving loads of helpful advice and

this was like when I was 19 the first

business I made when I was 19 when I

started at 13 at 19 suddenly it

succeeded in year 1 we made 10K year 2

we made 100K year 3 we made 150 and I

sold the business many years later and

that business led to the formation of my

YouTube channel which I guess was

business number eight and that's made me

multimillionaire so it's like were quite

a lot of shots of B for those first six

years oh along the way business 6 and a

half was like a you know soft software

as a service like for medical students

but it was within the branch of the

medal school thing where me and my

brother programmed an online question

bank with a subscription payment system

for helping people do practice questions

for these exams so I programmed all the

backend stuff I was watching tutorials

on like PHP and the LEL framework in my

lunch breaks as a medical student

watching this guy called Jeffrey way

who's a programmer just like screencast

how he was programming and this language

PHP and my brother was into programming

as well so he built the front end using

react which is another web framework and

so we combined forces and built this

thing together and that was making some

money there was quite a lot of shots at

bat and now I've been doing YouTube for

the last seven years so that's been my

main

focus the best business is the one that

works oops I

just oh well

the what what is you know now you said

you're a multimillionaire what is the

best part of being

oh the best part of being rich is the

freedom the freedom to not do [ __ ] that

I don't want to do and to do the stuff

that I do want to do the freedom to for

example I'm flying to Australia in a bit

it's a long flight I was like screw it

I'll just go business class like the

freedom to be able to do that is like I

would have never imagined millionaires

that would pay so much to fly business

class but I'm like you know what

actually I value comfort that's my money

dial you know to use REM sei's

terminology comfort and convenience so

let's go for it the freedom to be able

to quit my day job which you know I

quite enjoyed working as a doctor but

having the freedom to move away from

that to do the thing that I that really

lights me up which is to read write

learn and teach Ah that's incredible the

freedom to you know a friend s Bloom

invites me to go to Caro in Mexico for

like a week to hang out and I'm like

let's go I've got the time Freedom I've

got the money freedom to to be able to

do that and hang out with entrepreneurs

the freedom to just come to LA just to

hang out with people and to be on

people's podcasts and just make make

make friends be like you know I think I

might want to move to LA let's just

visit for a week and just see what

happens it's like the freedom to like

fly back to London on a moment's notice

just to be there for my mom's birthday

it's just so much so much freedom is

unlocked by having money as as you know

and that's like it's not about the

purchases I don't really buy anything

particularly fancy I buy camera bags

that's like my thing I was like finding

the perfect camera bag and I make sure I

have decent cameras but like there's

only so much you can spend on cameras

and camera bags before you physically

cannot spend anymore so like I don't

really buy anything I just have the

freedom to go places and do things that

a lot of other people don't have the

freedom to purely because they don't

have enough money how much have you

spent on your camera gear because as I

walked into your hotel room with where

you have like decent amount of camera I

was like wow how much have you spent on

Tech yeah probably I don't know a few

tens of thousands maybe in my life the

camera gear that I have with me I

probably carry about 15K worth of camera

gear with me he doesn't carry it with

him by the way yeah I don't carry with

me his Security Guard Security yeah um

yeah again there's only so much like

yeah you could go for the 50k RED

cameras but then they're really heavy

and really bulky Sony A7 S3 like sick

3,000 camera really really really good

and like the lenses I have on them are

not even the expensive ones cuz these

the cheap ones are lighter and I'm

optimizing for weight and size and no

one can tell the difference between a

1.8 $1 lens and a 1.2 G Master lens like

literally no one can tell the difference

and so I might as well save the two

grand save the one extra 1 kg and just

have the have a cheap ass lens so I like

finding those optimizations of like

what's the what's the upper limit to how

much is reasonable to spend on this

thing and all in terms of like the size

and the weight to that this thing will

get me you started a business recently

we're got I'm going to finish up because

we have sushi time soon shout out kin

Nori you're blow your mind be awesome

how's your keyboard I saw you launch

your keyboard I right here yeah how's

the keyboard launch how that go that was

interesting I was like surprised yeah it

didn't go very well um it sold I think a

few tens of units like tens of thousands

or tens no tens like actually tens um

we've I think we have about a thousand

either either a few hundred or a couple

of thousand in stock I don't really know

like the team deals with that

um I we liked I I like the idea of

building a tech brand of being a able to

build productivity Tech like the the

perfect backpack the perfect keyboard

the perfect Journal stuff that I would

actually use on a daily basis um and so

we thought [ __ ] it let's just do it and

we haven't really tried very hard to

Market it like we only just briefly

mentioned it on Instagram because like

we were promoting our YouTube of course

on Black Friday and that did $514,000 of

sales in like three days which was

pretty cool and so we were like we don't

want to promote this keyboard too hard

also we're promoting the book so we're

like you know what let's just kind of

chill launch it I don't really have any

expectations it's be on Amazon as well

the company we're working with is pretty

confident that worst case scenario the

stock will sell slowly over the next 5

years so hopefully we're not going to

lose money on it but I just like the

idea of building a Cool Tech brand so

all of this camera gear and stuff that I

buy I can actually build our own version

of it and sell that and that to me seems

pretty cool um it's a bit of a bet um

not sure how successful it's going to be

but we're going to give it a go and and

try it out and I think it's kind of you

it's kind of the same message that you

had earlier which is you tried a lot of

things some work some don't but you keep

trying yeah we've tried some many things

within this within this YouTube business

as well tried so many different niches

of content tried so many different ways

of doing courses tried so many

iterations of our YouTuber Academy I was

like eventually we landed on something

that worked and even when something

works you have to adapt it over time

because what works today may not work

two years from now and so there's just

so much experimentation going on

throughout the whole thing to the point

that when you asked how did the launch

go I was kind of like huh how did the

launch go I guess objectively it didn't

go very well but I just haven't haven't

even vaguely thought about that cuz I'm

like oh yeah it's just one of the many

projects we're working on yeah it like

there there are some things that you do

where you push the door and it swings

right open like the YouTuber Academy

course cohort one man I thought seven

people would buy it 350 people bought it

more money I've ever seen than I've ever

seen in my life that completely changed

my life but like there was so like the

stars aligned to make that happen that

doesn't usually happen when you launch a

business for the first time it's not

usually the case that you just mention

it on Twitter and suddenly 300 people

sign up to pay ,000 for the thing that's

weird U and so I don't have the

expectation that like things are going

to be as effortlessly successful as the

YouTuber Academy was I'm just like yeah

we'll give it a go try it out see what

happens double down on the things that

are working think twice about the things

that are not if it's fun we might just

do it anyway even if it doesn't make

money and just hope for the

best can you teach everyone out there

some cool British words like three of

the coolest British words you know yeah

you called one you said one downstairs

to me like I was call it like we were

calling a chap or a lab you had a

different word like something cool oh

yeah what was it

um oh okay

the thing I said to you downstairs was

weter w t t r weter is British slang

it's it's like I I was ironically using

the word because it's a sort of toxic

masculinity kind of word it's like if if

someone's being a if for example you

were talking to me about your feelings

and I was like a stereotypical British

dude who didn't know anything about

feelings I'd be like oh mate you being

such a wetter like you're being a bit of

a bit of a [ __ ] a bit of a Sim whatever

the I don't know what the Americans

would say so wetter is a fun one um

another fun phrase from British English

is faf that mate writing this book was

such a faff mate launching a keyboard is

such a faff it's like a bit of a ball L

it's a bit of a bit of a hassle it's a

bit of like oh it's kind of annoying

yeah oh man it's such a faf oh it's it's

such a faf booking an Airbnb these days

but you got to pay the cleaning fees you

know all that kind of stuff and the

third one is can't be asked can't be

asked it's like a r s e d ARS you know

like ARS like bottom can't be asked

means I can't be bothered means like I

don't have the energy for it I can't be

asked you you shorten that to CBA if

you're like texting

someone wor now yeah so I I I can't be

asked to write another book because it's

too much of a faf and I'm not a wetter

it's like that would be a sentence that

has all three although it's slightly out

of context what has been the book you've

recommended the most O show your work by

Austin Cleon amazing amazing book

changed my life 2016 I read it that was

it takes literally minutes to read I

love show your work by atin Clon um it's

the book that convinced me that it's

okay to start a blog I've been wanting

to start a blog for years I was

struggled I had the fear of

starting uh and I I yeah I had the fear

of starting and that book took away my

fear of starting it helped me realize

that actually there is something really

nice about putting your work out there

on the internet and it's totally okay to

do and it's a good thing to do so thank

you Austin Clon I'll be forever in your

debt because if I hadn't started that

blog in 2016 I would not have started

the YouTube channel in 2017 so it's such

an easy book to gift it's like tiny so

that's number one actually recently

maybe uh the pathless path by Paul

Millard um he's also based in Austin

that's a self-published book um so he's

become a uh become a friend of mine and

my brothers so this is a book about like

you know he had a corporate Consulting

gig and quit his job to like do his own

thing and wasn't making that much money

but so it's sort of meditations and

musings around like life and money and

meaning and work and what does it really

mean to sort of do have freedom and

follow your passion and he sort of has

this idea of the pathless path or the

pathless path As Americans would say

like rather than the default path which

is like get a job work your way up the

pathless path versus like you know what

actually I'll do a bit of Consulting

here a bit of freelancing here and there

I'll make enough money to get by and

then I'll just sort of wander and

explore and spend loads of time in the

park and go to the beach and spend time

with the family and I just love it it's

it's a really good book last two

things you come in my experience of 2

few years now you really make me feel

that nice guys can finish first

don't I'm not being a wetter here dude

nice but I I truly believe like you're

maybe this is just a compliment I don't

know what the question is it was I guess

it was a question in a

statement I do think some people people

like oh I'm selling I'm taking from

someone else or I'm trying to get famous

so I like trying to take advantage and

climb up other people but I I feel I've

always admired how you you always seem

to do it in a genuine and carrying way

sorry being I'm being a w yeah you're

being a

w

but it's just like I don't know I don't

know what my question is there I was

just I was thinking about it when I was

you know putting together the show and

the something about like just being

happy I'm assuming you're happy hate

when people do that like they leave the

other person you seem you're enjoying it

you seem like you're wanting to help

others and and smile and along the way I

think this is the thing with having like

just not very ambitious goals like if

someone asked me what are your goals for

the book you know part of me would say

oh I'd love if I the New York Times best

set list and stuff but like really

what's my goal for the book to write a

book I'm proud of and hope that some

people find it helpful what's my goal

for YouTube honestly to just being able

to keep on doing it that's a fairly non-

ambitious goal I'm not like we're going

to go for 10 million subscribers next

year guys I'm just like I just want to

find a way to keep the process fun and

just do it for a long time because I

found that when you keep the process fun

you just do it for a long time good

things will just happen and so when

that's the goal it means that I'm not

like trying to sort of message loads of

people to sort of feel hey man can I

come on your podcast I really want to

promote my book it's like if they offer

great I'll I'll I'll send an email I'll

I'll I'll make the ask once but like I

don't I don't need to I don't need to

feel like I'm begging for this thing

similarly I don't need to feel like I'm

competing with anyone I don't need to

feel you know we have a very liberal

money back guarantee on our stuff if you

don't like our [ __ ] we'll just give you

your money back we don't care we don't

need the money like who gives a [ __ ] you

know all of that's like what I try and

tell my team it's like and they and they

now get it they're like if anyone's even

vaguely unhappy we're just giving their

money back like it's like when you have

a high margin business where the goal is

to just keep on doing the thing you

don't need to clamber over anyone to get

there cuz it's so easy to just stay

there by just being nice and being

helpful and trying to help people out

and it's it's weird it's like the Good

Karma that I've been putting out into

the like three years ago I wrote I made

a video about jett's book think like a

monk and I hung out with jhett last time

we were in LA and he took me and you

know my team out to dinner uh to lunch

super nice guy and he was like yeah you

know I really appreciate the fact you

made that video about my book I was like

oh I didn't even realize he'd seen it

but he he'd seen that three years ago

and it's like the good karma for that

video it's like coming back now where

he's like yeah if you want to move to LA

let me know I've got lawyers got

contacts and what I'm just finding is

like people in this industry are just so

nice like everyone who's a Creator is

just so nice in the especially in the

educational space I don't really know

many entertainment people but it's like

you know I was on Louis house podcast

you know mentioned him a couple of times

in videos and stuff and now we're mates

you know had Matthew hussy on my podcast

he lives in La now we mes it's just like

good [ __ ] just keeps on happening

because I think

it's like you know the whole thing is

focus on the process focus on enjoying

it and be helpful to people along the

way and that's I think one of the

secrets to success if you can call it

that

up nice

Please choose the correct answer for each question below: