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Look out. It's the It's the

It's the match apocalypse.

This is a hot dog. It's a sandwich.

Ketchup is a smoothie.

Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what?

That makes no sense.

Hot dog is a sandwich.

A hot dog is a sandwich.

What?

Uh, welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is

a Sandwich, the show where we break down

the world's biggest food debates. I'm

your host, Josh. And I'm your host,

Nicole. And I

And my voice has been gone for roughly

what, two months?

What do you mean by gone?

It's not gone. It's just gotten a little

bit raspier. I feel like maybe I'm just

sort of aging into myself like a jazz

singer with a history of opium and

cigarettes addiction.

I've never really clocked the fact that

your voice has changed.

Really?

Sorry. Maybe I'm just not like that

receptive anymore.

No, it's perfectly fine. But every time

you change your hair and I don't notice,

you get all mad. Uh

well, yeah. That's because it's like you

can tell it's like instead of like

you're going through like a a decline,

your voice is going through a like

steady gradual gradual degree. Exactly.

It's beingcoming worse and worse. How am

I supposed to recognize until one day I

open the door and you can barely call

Robert Kenned.

Uh so today we are talking about the

matcha shortage or should I say the

supposed matcha shortage.

What do you mean? Because

is there fake news going around?

It's not necessarily fake news, but

we've been hearing about a matcha

shortage for the last I mean kind of

year or so.

What's happened is these little bad boys

right here. This is called a what's it

what's it called? A matcha latte.

Yes.

Never had one.

You've never had a matcha an iced matcha

latte before.

I've taken sips off of people's and I've

always enjoyed it. I have never gone to

a place and ordered a matcha latte.

Why? Because if I go to a place that

sells a majate, they probably also sell

something called black coffee. And this

isn't me being like a contrarian '9s

comedian being like, "Back in my day, a

small was a small, not a tall Starbucks.

Every word there actually means large.

I'm Paul Rudd in the movie Role Models.

Fantastic movie." But I'm not talking

about that. I just If I'm going to a

coffee shop, I I love drinking black

coffee.

You're really falling apart in the seams

here. I need you to get it together.

Okay. How do you feel about the matcha?

This is from three. Yeah, I also had a

visa.

My matcha is also like not Well, I did

get it unsweetened to be fair.

This is very nonsweet,

which I kind of like sometimes.

Do you need me to pat your back?

I don't know what happened, man.

Come here.

I don't think I need you to pat back. I

don't want to do that.

Come here.

I can't move.

Turn your chair.

just hit me.

Um,

is that better?

Yeah.

What were we talking about?

Um, matcha lattes and how the ones that

we have aren't very sweet, but that's

not a bad thing.

No, you you can really taste the matcha,

but um

vegetital. It's a vegetital matcha.

It it sure is, which is what people want

in matcha generally. Um, but there's

been a massive explosion of matcha

lattes and coffee shops that are

devoting themselves to matcha. There's

been a massive surge on social media of

all matcha based content. But as the

Global Japanese Tea Association came out

and said in a blog post,

they were like, "There's no shortage.

We're producing like way more than ever.

We kind of just can't produce that much

and um people are just trying to drink

way too much of it." So, does that even

constitute like a shortage? Well, I

think that the matcha business is going

to have to evolve and change a little

bit. I think we're going to have to

start seeing matcha farms in rural

Kentucky.

I also

other places that as of now, one that's

a great little conduit to the point of

like how much do we lose out on culture

and like quality because matcha can only

be grown in Japan.

Why? because that is literally the c the

protections on the term matcha. It's how

scotch can only be produced in Scotland.

It's how uh tequila can only be produced

in the in the tequila.

Yeah.

You know, it's it's why champagne can

only be produced in champagna.

Yeah. But like you have champagne and

procco in the same glass if you're not

someone who knows the difference between

champagne and procco. They're pretty

much the same thing.

100% agree. 100% agree. You're saying we

need like a truffle oil, like a

synthetic truffle oil for matcha. We

need a fake matcha business and you and

I should start it.

I don't want to move to rural Kentucky.

I mean, I'm sure it's beautiful and

there's like a bunch of kudu root

everywhere just like growing and

growing. But I don't Let me tell you,

well, the fact that people are so

obsessed with matcha right now means

that the industry is going to have to

evolve, right? I mean, the protections

on it are fine, and I'm totally fine

with there being protections on it, but

if there's a very high demand, which it

seems like there is, and it's not a

manufactured demand, I see people

literally having a matcha latte every

single day. People are obsessed with

their matchas. So much so that they're

willing to spend top dollar on their

matchas, which I don't think a lot of

people are willing to do that with their

coffee anymore

because of the like, how do you say,

like the fetishization of ceremonial

grade matcha and all that stuff,

correct? But for something like this, if

we want to see the matcha apocalypse

dwindle, we are going to have to see

places start producing their own matcha.

Whatever you want to maybe it's not

matcha.

I don't think you can just

do that though, especially a product.

What about tobacco? What about something

like tobacco?

I don't know. I don't really know how

tobacco is growing.

I've seen Thank you for smoking.

Yeah. Do they they start growing tobacco

and other but

so the interesting thing though right is

like what is matcha right and why is it

so hard to grow in other areas and why

can't Japan just plant more is it

limited land resources whatever so

matcha is it's just it's chameleia

sinensis right which is we've talked

about this it's the tea plant this is

the green variety of the tea plant

but there are tons of different kinds of

green tea in Japan right so there's like

sencha is the I think the most common

green tea in Japan there's other really

cool ones Hojicha is my favorite. It's a

roasted green tea leaf. And then there's

ganacha, which is green tea that's been

mixed with like roasted barley powder.

Um, matcha is so unique because one, if

it wants to be considered ceremonial

grade, which is not a real thing in

Japan. It's just a sort of western

marketing ploy, which I think is really

funny because we tend to have this um

I don't know almost like Japanophilic

kind of

like the fetish fetishization

like whenever sushi first came. Same

thing's happening with matcha. 100%. So,

we're like, "Oh my god, this is used in

in real ceremonies and now I can get it

flooded with milk and sugar and drink

it. I'm just like a Japanese monk." Um,

kind of a little bit that relationship

happens. But the term ceremonial grade

is is only a western marketing term, but

it does typically refer to what's called

a first flush harvest,

right?

Which is just the spring harvest, right?

And also, matcha, the reason it's so

like bright green and beautiful and has

a unique flavor is that it's like grown

partially shaded.

Yes. while the other kind is grown

straight up in the sun.

Yeah. So, it's like a a tremendous like

specialty product to grow and they've

been growing it in Japan for the last

like 800 years roughly.

Um and so I don't know that I've ever

seen such a like unique specialty

product explode on the global scale like

this and then demands in you know uh

coffee shops in Omaha, Nebraska being

like damn it Japanese farmers grow it

faster. Like that's crazy to me cuz

we've seen this in other, you know, like

Greek yogurt was a good example of an

explosion

in demand. But that is just a process

that you

use to treat dairy milk of which we have

an absolute abundance, right?

We have too much dairy milk in America,

right?

So everyone was happy to be like, "Oh,

you want us to just like

add slightly more cultures and strain

this for longer? Great. We can do that.

Seems doable."

But this is such a fixed amount. But you

don't think that there's a world in

which they it could be cultivated more?

I'm sure I'm sure Japan is trying

because they'd love to. There's also

only one harvest a year cuz it's just a

spring harvest

that but like it's like it's like

whenever you make wine, right? It's like

whenever you make Normandy wine. Is that

a thing?

Probably.

There's probably wine in Normandy.

And then you find places that have

similar soil and similar weather and

then that's how you get something like

California apple wine, right? because

there's a there's a similar enough

ecosystem

where the fruit can exist. I'm sure they

can find something in god knows where in

another part of the world

where they can find a plot of land and

they can start farming it and then the

Americans can shut up about it.

Well, so I almost don't even know if

that's if that's the issue

because I think Japan grows enough green

tea. It's just the amount that has gone

into processing

matcha. I think only like 6% because the

processing is then which is but no the

wine analogy is good.

Yeah. So we have to open more processing

plants.

We need to do like uh what's it called?

Sideways.

Was Alan Rickman the other dude in

Sideways? No. I don't know. He's a

beautiful blondhaired man with a very

like lionlike face.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Can you Google him? Sideways actor.

It's about the the burgeoning California

wine industry. We need to do that with

MA.

Thomas Hayden Church. Am I not right?

Lionlike face.

He has a lionlike face. I love that.

I've never seen it. Um but but if if we

can't So so the manufacturing is a

problem.

Yeah. And even down to like the

grinding, right? So the thing that makes

matcha really unique, what gives it the

green color is part of that is the

growing the shade process. Then the

other part

picking it in spring too.

Picking it in spring for slush harvest.

Um but also it's fully ground. The

entire leaf is ground into a very fine

powder. And they still use stone

grinding mills for it.

Incredible.

So it's the best way to do it. And also

the reason people love matcha is in part

because it is such a high quality

delicious product, right? And such a

like that green color, you know, unless

you just dyed some garbage product,

but yeah, it's like it's a it's a very

arteasonal product that we now want on a

mass scale. And so you grind the whole

leaf

using these stone grinding mills and

then you typically would use like a

brush

to like whisk the water in slowly to

almost kind of emulsify it. So I get

this creamy delight in it. And so it's

like how much can you massroduce what is

by definition an arteasonal product.

Well, what people are doing is they're

starting to batch it out. So a lot of

places they don't even do that process

anymore. That beautiful

Oh, yeah. No, no. That's not how the

coffee shops are making.

No, no, that's not Well, some coffee

shops will do that to maintain the

integrity of the product. So much so

they'll even temperature check the

water, make sure that they're not

burning the matcha, make sure they're

not like steeping the matcha in lukewarm

water. They'll make sure to whisk it

properly. They'll change out their

whisks. And are you having a good time

with your matcha latte?

I really like matcha.

Do you really? Like they even strain it

through like a fine mesh sie. Like

there's people and places that do that,

but on a m like you think Starbucks is

doing that? Like get out of your head.

They have a pre-portioned powder that

has sugar and probably some like milk

enzymes in there too just to make life

easier. But like

some coffee shops that are local, they

batch it out like almost a concentrate

and then they give you like 90% milk and

10% actual batched out matcha that they

whisk with those like little those

little airator whiskers. You know what I

mean? Exactly. So I mean the the artisal

and the dedication that is originally

associated with matcha is already dying

for the sake of convenience.

No, it's true. And also just like the

kind of name

listen okay matcha like one is it's not

new. It goes back it was actually

originally invented in in China and then

production of matcha was banned in China

in the 1300s and it went to Japan. It's

like a whole long Chinese dynastic

storyline that we don't have time to get

into. What we do have time to get into

is me being at the Onami Sushi Buffet in

the Laguna Hills Mall in like 2004

and they have just uh they just give you

a scoop of green tea of matcha ice cream

at the end of your meal. So I remember

like the first taste I ever had of

matcha at least the flavor was literally

green tea ice cream at like a $19 lunch

special sushi buffet

in Orange County. And I remember just

being like floored by it. I was like,

"What a delightful flavor." Even

drinking this latte like sends me back

to that time of eating green tea ice

cream.

But as far as like the actual drink

blowing up in America, we've had we

known about it for a long time.

Yeah, we've had matcha for a minute,

right? But kind of like how Goop spread

the gospel of quinoa, you know, in 15

years ago,

right?

Like what is spreading the gospel of

matcha?

Tik Tok.

It's the tick tockers. It's always the

Tik Tok. My feed is inundated with

people, beautiful girls, just saying,

"I'm going to try a $15 matcha latte."

And then they try, they're like, and

then their eyes get all big like that's

the best matcha I've ever had. That's

literally all my feed is. It's that and

cute little duck videos. Lots of duck

videos. But I don't know what Have you

ever purchased matcha and tried to make

it at home yourself?

I've not. No. Have you?

What about Julia?

No,

you guys are not matcha people.

No, we're not. I don't I think she like

actively doesn't enjoy the flavor of

matcha. I I do, but I again

for caffeinated bevy. The only beverage

that I have a sort of ritual is either

pre-workout or black coffee, right?

Protein powder as well.

I have a lot of various powders that I

have to mix in with liquids already

with the creatine.

You're just a powder man.

The BCAAs. I don't have time for matcha.

That's in my life.

Yeah. Well, I did I did buy a few

different kinds of quote ceremonial

grade matcha. And there was about a

month and a half where I was actively

making it at home all the time.

You're the one causing the shortage.

No, I was the one being late to work

sometimes because I had to make my

matcha lattes. I'm sorry.

That's why you were late to work. That

literally came up in your midyear

review.

It's not the only reason, but it was

like that one month where I was like 3

minutes late.

That's why.

That's crazy.

I had to make my matcha latte.

Had to is an interesting phrase. What do

you mean you What do you mean? What do I

mean? You had to make a matcha latte and

you were late to work. Building habits

takes

What if your habit was getting them to

work on things?

Well, that's not really viable for me

right now. And I would like it if you

could not just like completely

cuss me out in front of all of my

viewers and friends right now.

Especially Maggie. It's not that funny.

It's kind of really funny that you just

admit this to me.

I've admitted worse to you.

Yeah, it's a

It's literally not the worst thing I've

said to you like today.

and it's only 12:30.

Um, but yeah, like I was I was dedicated

to the matcha thing and the first time I

made it, I it was so nasty. Like it was

all lumpy and bumpy and it was like a

light it was like almost like a like a

seafoam green color. I'm like, "Ah, I

didn't do this right." But I still drank

it all. And then I did it again the next

day and the next day and the next day.

And I used different tools like I used

one of those whers. I used my milk

frother. I got the bowl with the whisk

and all that stuff. I didn't do the

whisk properly. I didn't let the whisk

hang out in water. So, it was just it

was such a mess that I just decided to

completely absolve myself of all matcha

making skills at that point. So, I never

did it again. So, it's just tried it.

I tried it for a month.

That Well, that's funny because there is

this kind of weird twopronged

two-pronged explosion of matcha, right?

Where you have the this and this isn't

like this is just a delightful matcha

latte from Three Sisters Coffee Shop in

Burbank. Great family-owned business,

right? Um, but uh there's, you know, the

cream top,

the Ein Spanners,

the Ein, there's Ein Spanner. That's a

coffee place that makes matcha. They're

doing all the

It's a type. So, so an Ein Spanner, I'm

not sure if I'm pronouncing an

Ein spanninner is a type.

It's a It's a type of coffee drink

and it's literally like like cold foam

that's been whisked to like soft peaks

and then you put like a shot of matcha

in it and then you sprinkle some matcha

on the top and you charge someone like

$10. It is so delicious. So there's

that, right? And these very highly

aesthetic coffee shops. And then there

are also people just buying ceremonial

matcha at home,

right?

To either make lattes or two to actually

like do the damn thing.

That's an

because as Oh, spinners are delightful.

So beautiful

because like uh you know the ritual of

making matcha is something that like

grounds a lot of people in the morning.

And I feel like this two-pronged

explosion, this two-pronged explosion,

Nicole, it mimics exactly what we saw in

like thirdwave coffee 10 years ago

where you had the coffee nerds, you had

me uh going to blue bottle, getting a

first cupping of the Yemen coffee beans

from Moar Alenali, smuggling them out of

the Yemen civil war. You know, you had

all these people drinking these what V60

Max pourovers of like these single

origin beans simultaneously while

Starbucks was just blowing up with like

you want butterscotch toffee chips in

your frappuccino,

you know? And so you had like these two

extremes of one being kind of this form

of like purity and ritual and then uh

you know the other extreme of this kind

of like aesthetic and excess

and I feel like matcha is just following

that.

I think you're right. I think you're

right. I remember whenever I was working

at a at a coffee shop, there was like a

bunch of other coffee. No, I'm sorry. It

was like a coffee and chocolate shop and

there were a bunch of other ones opening

around. Not the same brand. It was just

like a bunch of other like artisal

chocolate houses that had like a barista

in the back and all of these places

would do ceremonial

cacao drinking events once a month.

Oh my god. Really?

People would just come and sit down in a

circle.

Oh, sick.

And the lights would be dimmed down low.

And then you would have almost like a

shaman-like person talking about cacao

rituals like in the ascend mine empires

and stuff like that. So I think that we

are just we're two steps away from doing

ceremonial grade matcha tea tastings in

these crazy niche like matcha houses

this close.

I I think you're probably correct if the

demand can actually if the supply can

actually keep up with the demand. Can

you imagine Justin Bieber going to like

a ceremonial matcha tea tasting at

Community Goods?

I Yes, I could. Does he go to Community

Goods?

He's the one that unfortunately for

those of you that are listening that

don't know what Community Goods is, it

is the longest line that you will see in

Los Angeles for coffee.

Really? I've never been.

It'll literally circle around Melrose to

the point where you get to the high

school almost. It's like four streets

away from the high school. You're

literally The line goes so dummy long.

It's so ridiculous. All for like an $8

coffee drink. I don't get it.

There's another place called Maru that

people like.

Maru.

They do match. I haven't been. I got

dragged. Um

Why don't you go anywhere anymore?

But I do go places.

So cool. You used to go everywhere.

I would never go to coffee shop. I would

never go to coffee shop. I would go to

coffee shops to work,

you know. I would go work at Cafe Benet

on Wilshire.

But they have like But they have like uh

like foods there too, like pastries.

Yeah, I guess. Do I not go anywhere

anymore?

I don't know. Yeah, you sound like you

don't go anywhere anymore. You got

dragged to Maru. Maru is a great coffee

shop.

No, I got dragged to a different coffee

shop. Um I got dragged to a place called

La La Land Kind.

Yes.

And I felt

I went to high school with your creator,

Franuis. He's great.

I Yeah, it's lovely. I I felt though

like

Go ahead. What's up? I was in it's like

if a Laboo opened an Apple store,

you know, it was weirdly kind of like

So sorry and bright. I'm sorry.

But but also very sterile, but also

there were like 50 different drinks on

the menu and some of them had stuff

called things like banana cream and and

I didn't know what it meant. It it would

be like banana topped and I'd be like,

"You telling me I'm getting topped by a

banana right now?" Um but it was very

confusing. Uh, it was a very confusing

experience for me and I tried to order a

thing and they were like, "We're out."

And I was like, "Oh, I didn't want it

even." No, I got to say different words.

Um, but I got it and ultimately it was

pretty nice.

Did it have matcha in it?

No.

Okay.

Julia got a matcha thing

and she didn't like it cuz she like

matcha.

Yeah. But you got it to take a picture

of it.

Everyone take Everyone loves taking the

pictures cuz you get the drink and then

you take the picture of it and then that

is the experience. My computer decided

to restart by itself. I don't have any

autonomy anymore in the world.

It's okay. It's okay.

You get the drink and and by taking the

picture of the drink, then it not only

sort of becomes real in the world, but

you've already had the experience. It

was like when you told me that you

watched that video and you confuse that

with actually eating the food. It's like

once the mantra shows up on the picture,

then that means that you drink it. So,

why would you even drink it? I remember

when I was walking by a trendy frozen

yogurt shop called Little Damage

Downtown. They did a charcoal frozen

yogurt. I will actually watch an

influencer take a frozen yogurt, take a

picture of it, and then just throw it

right into the trash can without even

trying a single bite of it. And it all

kind of bums me out because there's like

actual temples in Japan that now can't

drink their matcha cuz it's Justin

Bieber at Community Goods drinking his

matcha. And where are the Japanese

temples? It's called ceremonial grade

because it actually corresponds to

ceremonies. There's no ceremony in

Justin Bieber taking a picture of the

matcha.

I think you and Franis were on the

Forbes 30 under 30 at the same time

actually.

Oh, really? Oh my god, that's really

cool.

Yeah, he's a nice guy. He actually just

did a collab with Keith Lee and he's

actually making matcha that I believe is

Can you Google Megie for me? Keith Lee

Laalakind Cafe. Can I tell you what I

love about Laakind Cafe?

Yeah.

They the servers or like the people

taking order, they always go like, "Love

you. Have a good day." Did you know that

they were very friendly? A lot of them

had piercings in places on their faces

that when I was growing up, people

didn't tend to have those piercings.

Like kind of dermals.

Oh, yeah.

They had a lot of dermals.

What kind of Lo kind were you at?

They were all very alternative really

in a way that I I like.

Okay.

You know, I want alternative people to

to one alternative people can do

anything. You can be bankers if you

want. You could be podcast host. You can

make coffee. But I I think especially in

coffee shops, they thrive. You know what

I mean? I'm trying to find this for you.

Hold on.

There's a really great Okay. There's a

really great What spurred this? There's

a really great article that was from BBC

News, um, where it was a reporter who

went to a town in Kyoto, I believe,

called Uji that makes the best matcha in

the world. It was literally the matcha

maker that used to make tea for the

emperor is in Uji. And they painted such

a vivid picture of Western tourists like

physically grabbing matcha out of like a

matcha tea shop owner's hands. to

wrestle it away from her because there's

such a shortage and it's people

effectively like hoarding matcha

and then this tea shop owner talking

about how they're afraid that they

actually won't be able to supply the

temples in Japan because of how fast it

is uh going off shelves. So Keith Lee um

is doing a Keith Lee latte which is a

double this is a double ceremonial

matcha secret sauce matcha cloud whole

strawberry and flaky salt and 100% of

all the proceeds are to go to the Texas

flood relief for Kirk County

we love that I love

these floods were horrific and I love

that this is the special sauce

the matcha foam is going to the floods

but you know what I love about this

That's a really good thing.

You know what I love about this?

I just get sometimes frightened.

It's okay. You get bummed out

by new technologies.

Sometimes the humanulture,

the point of humanity is to suffer

sometimes. And I know you're suffering

by being a little b- word about people

posting stuff on the internet and you're

just being a little b- word. But look

over here. Look what it says here. It

says extreme matcha. 6 to 8 g per

serving.

That's a lot of matcha. That's an

extreme amount of matcha.

This is double matcha. Do you know what

double matcha means? That means it's

twice the amount of matcha that needs to

be in there.

That what who's making these categories?

Um like if you go to a bar and you ask

for a double shot that means thank you

so much. I'd like to add some sugar to

it.

Mine's with soy milk.

Do you think soy milk is just milk and

Spanish? Um anyways, no I I sorry for

the mini spiral and crash out there. But

but no, like culture evolves. We've seen

these trends in the past, right? We saw

the quinoa boom. We saw the Greek yogurt

boom. third wave third wave coffee boom.

We've like seen all this happen. I think

culture moves very quickly and one Japan

right now

there's some stats coming out. Uh

Japan's tourism industry saw a peak in

2024 with a high of all time 37 million

tourists. Okay.

Right. And so right now, you know, how

many friends did you have go to Iceland

like seven or eight years ago?

Oh my god.

Everyone went to Iceland. Everyone went

to Iceland. It's just like there are

successful PR campaigns.

So many. How did you know? because I was

also there. Everyone went to Iceland.

Did you go to Iceland?

No, I never went to Iceland.

Everybody else. Why didn't we go to

Iceland?

I don't know what's wrong with $89

flights to Iceland. And it's all just a

PR campaign from tourism industries.

Japan obviously has like a lot of

awesome cultural exports. People are

watching anime, you know, doing all that

stuff. One, I don't know, One Piece is a

thing that people seem to like. I have a

Japanese hat on. I don't know. This has

been in my office for like 2 years and I

don't know where it came from. Um, but

the point is like I think this this

matcha apocalypse. It's not actually

something that's going to be a long-term

problem.

Your hair's so big today.

Thank you. I think matcha is generally

going to stabilize on some sort of

demand. I think people are going to find

a new drink to fetishize.

I don't think so.

You don't think so? You don't think

yerba mate can come in in 2020?

We tried with yerba mate. Remember?

What do you mean we tried with yerba

mate?

The US tried with those cans of yerba

mate.

Oh, guayaki.

I love yerba mate. And no, but like a

hot mate one. You think people are

ceremony behind mate? Yeah. Back in the

gourd, baby.

Back in the gourd.

Give me the mate gourd.

And then moving it to the side and

putting their straw. You think people

You know what? Maybe you're right. I

think maybe.

Yeah, I think we have. But you know what

has to happen? The Brazilians have to

hyper fetishize it and be like, "This is

what sexy Brazilians like to drink."

Acai. Acai is another great example of a

Brazilian product that we fetishize. I

think mate tends to be more Argentinian.

Oh, was it? Why did I think I'm sure

it's all in the Patagonian

area. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

But

yeah, asai used to be a big deal. You

It'll It'll stabilize.

It stabilized. It always stabiliz

stabilizes.

It always stabilizes, right? There's

like a natural eb and flow to these

things. Matcha has seen an unprecedented

rise. So 2010 to 2023, Japan literally

tripled their uh their production of it.

And so like that's why if you're from

the Japanese like tea association's

perspective, you're like there's no

shortage. We're like really making a lot

of it. you the demand has just increased

so much. It's not like um the short

Sriracha shortage was a real thing

because like there was a drought and

then the dude like killed his farm

connections and so there was an actual

shortage of Sriracha where you saw

production go down. Production's never

gone down in matcha. They keep making

it. It's just we live now in in a more

globalized culture

and you don't like that.

It's not that I don't like it. It's um

No, I guess I don't like it.

Okay. You sound like my dad.

No, I I think there's I think there's

something really important about the

idea of like context and teroir.

Sure.

Right. The idea of like

preservation of some things.

Yeah. Of um if every single food sort of

gets commodified and ran through,

right? I think you lose a fair amount of

like specialness in that food, right?

when matcha just becomes like the flavor

dour that you're leaving behind for the

next big, you know, milky coffee drink,

you know, it it to me it's a little bit

of a spit in the face in the last like

800 years of matcha production that

really means something to people.

Yeah.

You know, I think like the perfection of

an artisal craft is something and I

understand the irony of somebody who

every YouTube video we make where we

cook food, that's the only time we're

ever cooking that food, right? I'm not

somebody who sits here and I try and

perfect one dish, but I think I have

fantasies.

Well, you did have a video where you did

that with uh

Yeah, I did that with omu rice and a

Japanese dish

and a soup dumpling

and soup dumplings. Dishes that take

years and years and years to master. So,

I understand that I am also part of the

problem. We live in a society that moves

so so so fast because everything around

us demands it. But I am just urging

everybody to like slow down, man.

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All right, Nicole, we've heard what you

and I have to say. Now it's time to find

out whe out there in the universe. Time

for a little segment we call

opinions are like casserole.

[Music]

Megie, shut

I'm just kidding. I'm not abusive to the

staff.

If I was

Did you just call Megie the staff?

That's crazy.

That's worse than if you That's worse

than if you were to just like abuse

Megie. She just called her the staff.

She knows I'm kidding. Megie is my

friend, right? Megie.

Yes, we're

Maggie is friend, not food.

Food.

Is that That's not from Shark Tail.

No. Um,

finding Neymar.

Finding Neymar.

Bruce the Shack.

All right, let's get this ball rolling.

Bruce.

Hey, Josh. Nicole, it's Dane from

Louisville, Kentucky. I have been

subbing plain Greek yogurt for pretty

much every use of sour cream,

three years. I mean, I think it is

better for you protein and fish.

Um, but every time I tell people that I

use Greek yogurt in like a baked potato

or I use it as a base of a sauce, they

look at me like I'm insane. But I feel

like this is a good healthy common

practice that I've heard other people

do.

I'd love your opinion on this.

The opinion is it's a good it's a good

job, man. I barely I barely consume sour

cream anymore.

Only I only have Greek yogurt in my

house.

It's a d It's a dying industry. Sour

cream. The sour cream industry. It's

here's what you got to do. You got to

lie. You got to lie to them. You got to

lie to your friends and loved ones and

they're going to come over and you're

going to make them uh you're going to

make them a baked potato. You're you're

going to make them what else do people

put sour cream on? You're going to make

them like nachos enchiladas nachos and

you're going to put sour cream on and

they go, "Is this is this Greek yogurt?"

And you go, "No, no, it's sour cream."

And then you just lie to them until you

suddenly believe your own lie. Because

that's what I've been doing to myself. I

say, "Josh, Josh, Greek yogurt, it

tastes the same as sour cream. It's

healthier." And then I actually try full

fat sour cream and I go, "Oh, oh god,

that's good." And then I go back to

eating my Greek yogurt. So I think

that's what you have to do. It's Go

ahead.

No, no, it's okay. I was going to go on

a tangent tange.

Go on a tangent tang.

No, I don't want to.

Can I Okay. Well, I had I have a tangent

tange that you might agree with.

Go ahead.

It's like when all them influencers on

the Pinterest boards was making like um

they're like it's brownies except it's

just dates blended with black beans and

cocoa powder. And to them that's

brownies. That's that's brownies.

To them

to you that Greek yogurt is sour cream.

I would argue Greek yogurt is probably

closer to sour cream than this bean date

mash is to a brownie. But it like really

is the same logic.

Um

my tangent was going to be um that was

great. Thank you so much for your um

your cander. Um we we No, wait. When I

was little, there was an ad for Daisy

sour cream and I remember someone

dipping a strawberry into it. I remember

to this day I'm like, who the hell

dips a beautiful summer strawberry into

a daisy sour cream?

Why not disgusting? What if you put a

little honey on that sour cream?

But is there honey being drizzled on the

ass?

No, there's no honey in that honey.

No, there's no implied honey. But like

if you

But you would dip a strawberry into

yogurt.

And here we are talking about how yogurt

and sour cream are interchangeable. But

s Josh,

what?

They're not equal.

They're not equal. But why? I would

argue sour cream would taste better on a

strawberry than yogurt.

No. No.

Why?

No.

How are they even?

No.

Julia once, my wife, my wife Julia once

just sent me a text just saying like,

"What's the difference between it was

like yogurt, sour cream, crema, Mex me,

just all these things." She was like,

"What's the actual difference there?"

and I was like at work and I didn't

respond for a couple hours and she was

just like I don't understand in all

caps. And so maybe you should do a whole

podcast about that because I couldn't

tell you how yogurt and sour cream are

actually different.

I think yogurt and sour cream are

different because of the lacto

fermentation process.

What's making the sour cream sour?

I think I Well, I think there is lacto

fermentation that's happening but not as

much.

Not live cultures.

I don't maybe. And I also think there's

more well full fat Greek yogurt

We need to research this later. But I'm

just mad about the Daisy ad. Like, that

Daisy ad pissed me off to this day. To

this day, I'm sorry, I spit. To this

day, there has never been an ad that has

viscerally angered me the way that this

Daisy sour cream dipping strawberry ad

did. And you know exactly the one I'm

talking about.

And I always thought it looked so good.

I was like, this is what rich, happy

families are doing is they're dipping

their strawberries in sour cream. Daisy,

you got me on that one.

No way.

And you know what? To this day, I still

do do a dollop of doot do a dollop of

daisy. When

you don't, it's sour cream.

Well, when Susan comes over, cuz that's

Greek yogurt.

That's why there's still daisy in my

pantry

for your mother-in-law.

My mother. Yeah, she came over and I

made her a loaded baked potato.

That's a boomer food. Sour cream is a

food for boomers.

You're correct.

Next.

Greek yogurt occupied 0% of total yogurt

market share in 2000. By 2010, it was up

to 44% of total market share of yogurt,

now peaking at 51%.

Wow.

What kind of neurode divergence is that

called? The really good kind.

The one the one that helps.

The one that helps push us all forward.

Even though sometimes we don't want to.

We just want to sit and just

I love yogurt.

Yogurt loves you, too.

Hey, Josh Nicole. Love the podcast. Uh,

I just discovered something that I'm

eating right now that is basically

getting the flavor of crappy American

sushi that you get at regular American

sushi restaurants, but for almost no

money.

Pause it for a second. Pause it for a

second. I'm going to guess. I'm going to

guess. I'm gonna guess that it's cream

cheese, cereami sticks,

uh, canned tuna, and Sriracha. Continue

for almost no money. Just take the what

I have, at least in my place, it's just

called crab salad. It's the fake crab

sticks mixed up with spicy mayo and

other things. It's exactly what is in

crappy American sushi. You put that just

with rice with soy sauce on it, you have

the exact same flavor palette. Pretty

close. That's it. More people should eat

this.

Okay, great.

This is one of those

mind readader. I'm a mind reader. I read

patterns.

This is one of those beautiful things

where where if you're knowledgeable

enough, you can kind of like what's his

name? Doctor Strange. You kind like

Doctor Strange way. You can Rainman your

way. Rainman was my favorite Marvel

superhero. You can

Dustin Hoffman. Underrated.

You can kind of like Rainman your way

into different worlds where where you've

taken you're like, "Okay, sushi,

expensive, cool, elegant food. You get a

even a California roll at a sushi bar is

still like kind of really cool thing and

delicious objectively. And then you have

the crab salad that my boomer dad grew

up eating. We would go to the Ralph's

Kroger store deli, get a scoop of crab

salad. That's the same thing that's

inside the California roll. Put it on

rice. You're correct. You've won. You've

like solved the

You cracked the code.

Cracked the Enigma code. Now you can

find all the Ubot.

Josh is referencing that one movie with

Benedict Cumberbatch and Kieran

Knightly.

What?

Which one?

What?

Which about the German Ubot?

Yeah, about cracking the code. The

imitation game.

Oh, I was referencing Well, that was

that about Alan Touring.

Um, can you go back to the

looking?

I never saw it.

That's a true story if that's what

you're wondering.

The imitate. Is that about Alan Touring?

Go. Go down, Megie. Go down.

Scrolling.

I was pressing. It's not scrolling.

I'm in the middle of reading.

I'm trying.

Peggy, I'm kidding.

How hard is it to get good help around

here?

I'm crying.

What is this website? Are you on the

web?

It's Netflix. It says, "During World War

II, a mathematician leads a team of

crypto analysts as they work feverishly

to break the Germans notorious Enigma

code."

That's pro. Yeah, the the the

mathematician is probably Alan Touring.

I've never seen the movie, but I'm

reading Cryptonnomicon by Neil

Stevenson.

Oh, so you're reading the book about the

movie about literally

that's a weird way to do stuff.

Honestly, why would you do it in that

order?

I didn't know the movie existed. The

book

um and it's a it's a fiction book, but

he's a character. He was um

touring test.

Touring test. That's correct. Also

also really big at that movie Ex

Machina.

Yes. Also a g a gay man who was treated

very unfairly.

Yes.

Being a hero. That's they they include

that in the movie.

They include that in the movie.

That's good.

What are we talking about?

Crab salad.

It's great.

I have some crab salad in my fridge

right now. Megie, sorry to make you

pause it. That was the end of that

sentence. I made it.

Okay. I got to click play now. I put

shrimp in it.

Hey Josh, Nicole, and Megie. This is

Charity from Virginia.

Hot take is that pickle butts

and green bean stems um are not gross to

eat. My husband will not eat the end of

a pickle if it has the tiniest bit of

stem um or even a hint of it, even if

it's cut off. So, what do you think?

Stems and pickle butts. gross or not

gross.

Um, I was always raised in a house where

my mom would cut the green beans to make

Persian food very specifically. So much

so that it was also my job to like snap

the ends and cut them also. They're the

same size. She literally trained me, my

mom, even though she like didn't like it

when I was cooking with her. She like

kind of taught me some like really like

important skills like she like you trim

this on but you leave the tails on this

side because it looks better. You know

what I'm talking about for green beans.

Right here.

Do you know what I'm talking about? Why

are you so quiet?

You trim what?

Green beans.

But you're saying like, okay, I got

pictures pulled up. You're saying you

trim off the hard part of the stem, but

then you leave the pointies

some sometimes.

Yeah,

sometimes.

I would always trim them, but I've never

eaten the pointies or the green.

I've never eaten the point

out of habit, but Charity I believe

charities should be correct.

I believe Charity's talking about the

stems being edible, not the green pointy

bit.

Yeah,

I don't agree with you.

Cuz sometimes a pickle butt, if it's a

clean pickle butt,

I love pickle butt.

Arguably better. You get more crunch cuz

the skin, but then sometimes there's a

little stem hanging off of it. I'll eat

it.

You'll eat the full stem. I'll just

twist off the stem.

I'll eat it. I don't care. I'll eat the

butt.

You ever How many How many corettes do

you prep?

What's a corette?

A corette.

You Americans call it a zucchini.

I I I

cook zucchini like once every two weeks.

Yeah. I'm probably cooking it like twice

a week.

Oh,

I don't know why. It's one of the

vegetables that Julian does have to do

with anything.

I'll tell you why. So you can picture a

corset, right? Zucchini as you Americans

call it. Um, and there's there's a butt.

You are also American.

Yeah. So are you. So that's why you call

it a zucchini. And I call it a corset.

So the corset, right? It's got a little

butt

and it has a little top hat.

It has a little top hat. I used to trim

both of those off and then I was I

realized why, Josh? Why can't you be

more like Charity and just eat the butt

and the top hat of the corset? And now I

do and my life is better for it. They

You know what the butt and the top hat

tastes like? I more corette.

More corette.

I think I subconsciously removed the top

and the bottom, too. I think it might be

just like a cooking kitchen thing.

Yeah. It's like you're like, "Oh, square

off the cut."

I think it's where it comes from.

No way, man. Eat the butt.

That's a mythical kitchen. It's a

mythical kitchen motto.

Eat the butt.

Get out.

It's not even a podcast motto. It's just

a mythical kitchen. That's the ethos of

our channel.

Eat the butt.

Sorry, children. Listen to this.

Hello Josh, you beautiful chiseled man.

And Nicole, you wonderful mother to be.

I've only got a few moments you with my

food take. So pitter patter, let's get

at her.

What is the sauce that goes beautifully

with a hot dog when ketchup, mustard,

and the like just aren't cutting it and

you want to shake things up? That's

right, applesauce.

Oh, hell yeah.

It's got texture. It's got that little

whisper of acidity. And most of all,

it's got convenience, baby.

That's right. Why try to ketchup and

mustard out of a bottle when you can

bust open a cup of applesauce and be

ready for dipping in no time?

The applesauce cup is the ideal vessel

for dipping foods. Why be relegated to

those small paper and metal condiment

cups that can only take a few fries at a

time at most? Get a cup of applesauce

and dip freely.

And like I said, it's fantastic with hot

dogs, but it's also great with its

cousin, the corn dog, and much more. I'm

talking French fries, fish sticks,

chicken nuggets, chicken fries, chicken

wings, chicken thighs, pork chops, you

name it. If it has an ounce of H, this

would be good with a sauce. Applesauce

can fit that roll 100%. And a little

bonus before I go, fried catfish is

right up there next to pizza on the

chart of tasty foods that are still

tasty straight out of the fridge the

next day.

Love y'all. Be blessed.

Love that. What a great voice you have.

Incredible. Uh my favorite part of that

was that he said, "I only have a short

time to dazzle you." One, we were

dazzled from 3 seconds in. 97 seconds.

He That was the short time. But I think

he made his point very very clear and I

think it's an incredible point.

Um I have never been a lotka and

applesauce girl.

So I'm going to and I don't like

applesauce in general. Very I don't

think I've eaten applesauce more than

five times on my own valition. I once

drank a quart of applesauce. I just

drank it. They sold it 32 ounces at

Write aid. I bought it. I drank it. I

then I then held the world record. Yes.

I then held the world record for most

baby food. But if it's really mostly

applesauce, I ate 3 lb 10 oz in 1

minute.

I'm not a big applesauce person. I'm not

a big like puree. Like sweet purees are

almost too vomity for me

in a way. But ketchup is okay because it

has enough salt.

I think equal parts applesauce and

mustard. I think that would be a great

That's a chutney. That's like chutney.

But applesauce is most of the way to a

chutney.

No, it's not savory enough to be a

chutney. Well, I agree with that. Most

of the way you just got a little

sprinkle of salt, little hit of acid.

But I think I agree. I think the hot dog

is like salty and savory enough for it

to really work with the applesauce.

What did they say? Something sazzle.

Let's get a

bit powder. Let's get out of it. We're

stealing that.

that

approved for stealing.

I thought I thought maybe a little too

much pos, a little too much logos, not

enough ethos behind it cuz when we start

talking about the dipability of the

cups, I think what you're looking for is

just maybe a wider mouth bowl for your

ketchup.

Seems like a pretty easy sol. You know

what I mean? But but again, I do think

it's incredible. Corn dog, applesauce,

perfect.

I'm down with corn dog now because corn

like cornbread batter is sweeter and

there's like honey in it.

Yeah. So, I understand why the the how

do I the channel

channel

the channel

like the the river is it's closer to the

bend. You know what I mean? Like like

the the the bridge is more a bridge in

the gap.

Yeah.

Bridge in the gap with corn dog make

more sense than hot dog and bun.

Yeah. But really pretty well well

reasoned. Very well very well presented.

I applaud you.

Feels very German. And on that note,

say the thing you said, you know, like

you go like a German computer again

probably.

Well, on that note, thank you so much to

stop by Hot Dogs and Sandwich. We got

new audio only episodes every Wednesday.

New videos out on Sundays wherever you

get your videos. The Blockbuster.

If you want to be featured on Opinions

like Casserles, hit us up at 833 Dog Pod

1, but only if they're as good as the

last opinion. All right,

don't hold yourself up to his standards.

You're never going to compare. Um, but

you know what you can compare is the

video quality of this podcast versus our

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