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We've had 28 women murdered in the last
five years. It seems like there's less
appetite to come out and riot whenever
the perpetrator looks like someone you
might work with or play football with.
>> Why do the government and left-wing
politicians continue to call concerned
citizens far right when the vast
majority are just concerned about
illegal immigration.
>> Right. So we mentioned rhetoric already.
Um Hillary, let me come to you.
Obviously K star at the labor conference
today referred to uh a policy of of
reform as a racist policy when it comes
to immigration.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean racist far right. Do you agree
with that?
>> Yes I do because if you look at what
reform has proposed on indefinite leave
to remain because controlling migration
is absolutely right and proper.
something the government is committed to
which is why we are making changes to
the immigration system. That is one
thing. Tightening up the rules for
settlement and so on. It is completely
different to say to people who have
lived in this country for a long time,
paid taxes, worked, contributed that
their right to remain in Britain, we
gave a promise, is could be taken away
from them and they could be deported.
And when people think about it, who do
you know who has indefinite leave to
remain? It could be the carer who's
looking after your ill mother. It could
be your neighbor. It could be an in-law.
It could be the doctor who treated you
at the hospital. And I think it is an
immoral policy and the prime minister
was right quite right to call it out
because it is in the end divisive. And
as we've just discussed in the wake of
the terrible events in Manchester today,
there are enough people out there who
want to divide the nation and we should
be trying to bring people together and
have a sensible debate about the
difference between proper controls on
migration and not breaking the word that
we've given to people about their
ability to continue to contribute to
this country.
The question was asked uh about
concerned citizens not about reform but
about concerned citizens uh which there
is a vast majority that are concerned
about illegal immigration which I don't
think you answered
>> and do you feel that they are being
wrongly referred to as far right
>> wrongly referred to as far right uh as
well as being ignored
Um I accept that there are many people
who are concerned about migration. That
is why the government is taking a number
of steps and Paul's point is that you
feel that they're being called far right
when in fact they're not. That's your
view.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Well, I I I don't accept that the
government is doing that. We've called
out what Nigel Farage proposed and
reform proposed, but we're also making
changes to the immigration system which
I hope people will recognize as they
unfold. say changing the arrangements
for getting indefinite leave to remain
people have to make a contribution not
be claiming benefits spotless criminal
record all of those things that we've
announced looking at the way in which
the European Convention of Human Rights
is interpreted not leaving it because if
we left the European Convention we'd be
in a club of three in Europe Russia
Bellarus and the United Kingdom and
there are parties on the panel that are
in favor of us leaving
>> Alex Look, uh, in answer to your
question, there isn't, uh, I haven't
seen any justification for the use of
those terms. And you're right, there are
a lot of people who are concerned about
levels of immigration. They're perfectly
entitled to hold those views and to not
be shouted down. And and I before I was
a politician, I was a history teacher.
And in my lifetime, I have watched
people take words that meant one thing
in the 1930s and try to apply them to
entirely different situations in the
modern age and distort them. far right
used to mean uh the Nazis who rounded
people up and you committed the worst
atrocities in history and put them in
camps and murdered them. It's now used
to accuse people who raise concerns
about immigration of being the same
thing is totally unacceptable. What's
what's happened here very clearly is
that the prime minister went to Labour
Party conference and did not want to
talk about all of the scandals
enveloping his government. Didn't want
to talk about Angela Rainy. Didn't want
to talk about Peter Mandlesson. Didn't
want to talk about Morgan Mcweeny.
didn't want to talk about the state of
the economy. What he tried to do was
distract everybody from that by saying
something stupid. And unfortunately, he
had a degree of success with that. I
don't think we should put up with it. I
think we should talk about the main
issues and not be calling each other
names. woman in the middle.
>> Um, I believe in an inclusive society,
but I think when Paul said that people
were concerned, they're concerned
because they see it as an insidious
erosion of our culture and identity. And
Mr. Ben, your government don't seem to
want to protect that. In the south of
Ireland, there's been a 10% rise in
population and the last consensus in
2023 in the south of Ireland there was
20% of the people identified as not
being born in the country. I I I think
that was conservative estimate and I
believe it's probably more like 30%.
>> I mean obviously we we don't know that
statistic. I I should just point out
that the UK will soon be going in that
direction and will soon reach those
figures.
>> Okay. Can I just take issue with the
terms like insidious erosion of our
culture that is
this is our human beings that we are
talking about. We know in this part of
the world what it's like to go away to
get a job to start a new life away from
war and how we were treated when we
moved away. I think what's happened to
Kier Star Dmer is that Nigel Farage is
dragging him around by the tea. I think
he is hemorrhaging votes on the right
and the and the left and what he's
struggling to do is explain to people
that the reason you're on a housing
waiting list and the reason that the NHS
is underfunded and that your child can't
get a special school place is not
because of immigrants. It is because of
successive governments in Westminster
and in this part of the country that is
the reason as well. And now Kirst has
decided to go after people like delivery
drivers and bring in something like a
brickyard. None of that is going to
build houses here. None of that is going
to bring school places and none of it is
going to affect the NHS. We need to be
very careful when politicians start
punching down because it means they
don't have any policies that can help
you.
Uh I think it's important in these kind
of discussions because they t can tend
to get very sort of emotive very quickly
is to sort of look at the facts and
there were figures out this week or last
week that showed that in the last 12
months the population of Northern
Ireland has grown by
>> a fraction of a percent. It's been quite
small in the grand scheme of things and
there the context is different in the
republic and different in GB
>> but I think here we have to be very wary
of what is really happening here and not
sort of somewhere else that we see and
try and get caught up in those kind of
conversations. The most important thing
I think is to deal with this as it
happens and as it sort of affects us.
>> Well, let's just get some statistics
then. So 3.4% of the population in
Northern Ireland is from an ethnic
minority. uh that compares to England
and Wales where it's 18 over 18% but in
in Northern Ireland just in 2011 it was
1.8 so it has gone up but it's it's it's
still very small. Yeah, I I think it's
very easy to hide behind some of the
statistics and I actually agree with the
original question because it has been a
deliberate attempt by Labor and
previously the Conservative government
to brand anybody that showed any concern
with illegal and uncontrolled
immigration as racist. That was wrong.
And I'll tell you why. because people
with genuine heartfelt lived experience
seen as so I I look for example in
Belfast it is the second highest
dispersal rates for asylum seekers from
hotels into accommodation in local
communities right HMOs have h changed
the landscape of some of comm some of
our communities it is without doubt that
immigration particularly the cost
associated has had a dramatic impact and
I listen how people can say well It's
not because of the levels of illegal
immigration that's affecting our health
service and GP access and housing and
school places. But look at the figures.
15.3 billion across the UK by 2029 to
provide asylum accommodation and
support. That's not including other
costs such as legal cost.
>> All right. 15.3 billion what?
>> H pounds right across the UK for housing
asylum seekers and other associated
costs. In Northern Ireland alone, that
figure will balloon to 400 million. Now,
this is the point.
>> That's assuming the status quo remains.
>> Yes. And it may well get worse. So, and
it has got worse when we look at the
statistics. 50,000 people came by boat
into GB in this past year. That's what
we know of. But let's look at what that
money could actually do. Could that
money fund health care? Could it help to
the 400 million alone would would be the
entire capital budget for education in
Northern Ireland alone. So I do not
accept that anybody that has a
legitimate concern in relation to
illegal and uncontrolled immigration is
racist. That's lazy politics. Just this
week David Lami tried to insinuate that
Nigel Farage was in some way connected
to the Hitler youth. How low can you go?
The Labor government are catching on
very quick. The silent majority want
common sense. They want border
enforcement and they want to ensure that
this country that those that come to it
respect our laws, contribute and most
importantly ensure that our culture and
our values are not in competition with
theirs.
>> Man here in the glasses.
I completely agree with Jonathan just
going back to Hillary's point saying
that reforms uh rhetoric is divisive.
The prime minister of the country said a
few months ago that we risk becoming an
island of strangers. Why isn't that
divisive? But as soon as it is Nigel
Farage will say it. It's a it's racist.
His supporters are far right. He's far
right. But when Kier Star says it, it's
an accident. It's a mistake.
>> Okay. Man here in with a blair. Yes.
Uh just to bring it back to the original
question, um
to target someone on the basis of where
they come from or their identity or
ethnicity in particular, that is racist.
>> Um so I don't see how it could be
described any other way. I understand
that people are having to deal with um
the cost of living being untenable. Um
but that's nothing to do with um where
people are coming from.
>> Uh
that's right.
>> Okay, you made your point. big woman
here in the front.
>> Uh, can I just over the summer we had
riots and vigilante groups here and a
lot of politicians came out and said
that well these people had legitimate
concerns. We've had 28 women murdered in
the last 5 years.
>> It seems like there's less appetite to
come out and riot whenever the
perpetrator looks like someone you might
work with or play football with.
I I completely endorse that point and
and unfortunately my own constituency in
North Belfast witnessed some horrific uh
racist attacks and intimidation. And
there's an ability to come out and
condemn that without using the word but
at at the end of it. And I don't see
enough of that whenever we talk about
acts of racism and intimidation or
sectarianism that was quite rampant in
this part of the world. certainly at at
the beginning of the summer. I I think
the the debate itself for me is
primarily focused in England at the
minute. Um whether it's reform or
whether it's the points that have been
made uh between Hillary and Alex so far
this evening. But this conversation and
it goes back to the question I'm not
avoiding that this conversation demands
it demands accuracy and integrity when
we talk about it. So there is a way in
which you can ask a question on
immigration which has integrity and
accuracy at its heart or that you may
have a have an honest um an honest
appetite to get information that is
relevant to that. But there's also
another way to go about that
conversation and unfortunately that's
what we've seen too much of. We've seen
that type of dog whistle politics. Uh
we've already seen it so far this
evening with statistics being thrown
here there and everywhere. The issues
that the issues that come into my door
in my constituency office, the issues
that I talk about with people on the
street or people who are asking for our
help is not on the boats that are coming
up Belfast lock the way some local
politicians would have you believe
because that's completely fanciful. It's
about cost of living. It's about
demanding a a better a better um outcome
from Westminster. It's about seeing an
executive working together to tackle the
problems in our health service. We need
more workers coming into particularly
that area of life as well as delivering
on everything else. So I do take issue
with anybody who would infer that the
number one issue here is around
migrants. We've already had the the
statistic that there's only 3.4% of
ethnic minorities that live in this part
of the world that call it home. For me,
anybody who wants to call this place
home, we have a duty to put our arms
around them and make them feel as
welcome as possible.
>> So unlimited immigration into
No, let's and and let's just
>> you say anyone who wants to come here,
you need to welcome them. I just know
what you meant by
>> I I didn't appreciate you were going to
jump on that word, but I see Johnny is
trying to do the same. So, let's let's
make it very clear. Nobody would want
that. And and let's be very clear about
that. any responsible government or
authority around the world wants to have
a lawful, legally compassionate and
enforced and resourced immigration
policy. To say that anybody is for open
borders is nonsensical. And it goes back
to the point that I'm making about
accuracy.
>> It's only reflecting what you wasn't
directing that at you. I was directing
that at Johnny who's saying who's saying
that that's exactly what I want. It
isn't what I want. It is not what Shinfe
wants. You do have the ability and there
are examples of this to talk about
immigration to have an immigration
policy which obviously isn't evolved
that in this part of the world that
comes from Westminster but to have an
immigration policy that needs to be
resourced because that's a big problem
in this as well and needs to be
enforced. But there's an ability to do
that that is completely compliant with
human rights and international law where
you are treating people with compassion
and not in the way in which we've heard
some people talk so far this evening.
briefly.
>> Briefly, but John, that's part of the
problem because your actions don't match
uh the rhetoric because not so long ago
in the Northern Ireland Assembly, I
brought a motion calling for action on
uncontrolled and illegal immigration.
Your party voted it down. So, you can
say what you want in the audience
tonight, but your actions do not do not
bear out that you're a party that is
part of legal immigration. No, but it
showed the sentiment. And here here's
the other problem. There's a huge
conversation happening across Northern
Ireland right now. There are people from
traditional nationalists and Republican
backgrounds alongside unionists and
loyalists who feel that enough is enough
when it comes to pansying around on
illegal immigration. Control our borders
being yes. Control our borders and
restore order. And that's certainly a
policy that I'll be pushing for and
continue to
>> mean. That is a word that is often used
as a derogatory term for people who
homosexual. Is that what
>> No, that is exactly not what I mean.
That is exactly what I mean.
>> No, it is not. No, that is not what I
mean.
>> I say very, very clearly that is not
what I mean. I'm saying clearly to the
audience tonight, there's a conversation
happening in Northern Ireland. Other
people want to deflect from it. Let's
get serious. Let's ensure that we have
border policies that reflect a country
that is in control of its borders.
>> All right. I'm and I'm going to if you
forgive me I'm going to move
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