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Is it custard?

Is it cake?

Is it sausage?

Is it porridge?

No, baby. It's pudding.

This is a hot dog is a sandwich.

Ketchup is a smoothie.

Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what?

That makes no sense.

A hot dog is a sandwich.

What?

Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a

Sandwich. The show we break down the

world's biggest food debates. I'm your

host, Josh Sher.

And I'm your host, Nicole Inay.

And today we have a very special guest

on the pod. He's a chef, a founder, and

the ring leader of a merry band of

culinarily chaotic comrades over on the

YouTube channel Sorted Food. Please

welcome the incredibly talented Ben

Abil.

Awesome. What an intro.

Quite the tongue twister. Nicole Nicole

Nicole wrote it. That was her. That was

her.

I do that on purpose.

Um, we have been meaning to do this

podcast

for years.

For literal years. It's been on the same

Google doc that we've had go been that

we've had going since like May of 2020.

thoughts.

Pending thoughts and also pending a real

life British person to come on show. And

now that we

No pressure then

now that we've captured one.

He is real. I touched his shoulder. He's

like I I know leprechauns are Irish but

you're sort of like the spritly like a

hobbit I think is the British version of

leprechaun.

The hairy toes give it away.

You can't call a guest a hobbit. I'm

so sorry. Part of his culture. I'm so

sorry. But we are discussing what is

pudding because from the American

perspective when we see black pudding

and Yorkshire pudding and figgy pudding

and hasty pudding which is my favorite

pudding by the way.

Know you have a favorite pudding that

leads me to believe that the term is a

little bit too nebulous and might need

some explaining from somebody who has a

deep culinary and cultural understanding

of it.

Yeah, it's it's loose. It's loose and I

just feel like it's a vibe.

It's a pudding is a vibe. It's a

feeling.

Okay.

It's a mood.

Sure.

It's a comfort blanket. Pudding is all

of the above and probably is still

waiting to evolve into more things.

Um,

welcome podcast is over. See you later.

I feel I feel good about that. Do uh the

American the American version of

pudding. Do you

confuses me? It confuses you. What do

you think American pudding is?

It's like a custard or a

something set with starch and egg.

Right. Correct. Always cold.

Always cold.

Have you ever had warm pudding before?

Like purposefully.

I used to. So our our pudding either it

comes in two forms. You're dead correct.

It's similar to a custard, but depending

on what I feel like the French would not

call it a custard. It's generally not

set with eggs. You can make pudding.

You can, but we t the American way is

with cornstarch.

Is with cornstarch. It's just milk,

cornstarch, and sugar.

And yummy. And it's generally either

served in a little cup that you rip off

a foil packet on the top and eat it uh

during school lunch.

You forgot to lick the top.

Always always.

Yeah. But then once that top is going to

kind of paper cut your tongue and you're

never going to do it again. It happens

to us all. Uh and then the other form is

it comes in a little box of powder and

you put that on a stove top with milk

together. But you're talking about the

like capitalist commodification of

pudding,

which is like

the way that you know

the only American food culture is that

of commodification, right?

And so I convenience. Yeah. And so

that's where we've ended up with

pudding.

And don't get me wrong, like custard I

think is a human right. I I feel like

it's one of those things like it's it's

whether it's hot or cold, whether we're

talking trifle layers of custard sponge

and jelly or hot and steaming over a

pudding. It's it's just something that

everybody should be entitled to enjoy.

I agree. And I also the the

condimentification of custard is

something I didn't know as a thing until

I was in South Africa. Okay.

And any uh dessert that we had like um

cook sisters or these like delightful uh

you know like fried pastries but they

just brought out what to me you know

there's the Mexican brand of fruit

nectar called Jumx.

Yes.

And they're in like

I call it humx. It's probably

you call it Jumx. I call I like the

Jewish mix confusion. It's probably a

mix.

I don't know.

But it's it's in these like quart-sized

heavy cardboard containers with

the powder waiting to be turned into

pudding.

Well, no. I thought it might have been

But it was just a giant carton of

custard that you go and you squeeze. Do

you have that in Britain?

Yeah, we have tinned and canned custard.

We have cartons of custard. We have pots

of custard. We have dried custard. We

have frozen cust. Obviously custard is

important. It's not pudding, but

but it's it is a component part of

pudding perhaps.

So my question is where does creme glaze

go into the conversation? Is crema glaze

a thinned version of custard?

It's a bougie cheffy version. French for

sure. It lacks the, you know, the food

coloring you get in birds custard that

makes it yellow that is like school

canteen and family dinner vibes.

Instead, it's looser and softer and more

vanilla and delicious.

Right.

But that's Yeah,

I just put that together. Is that like

the French saw an English custard and

then said ah English cream glaze like

that's is that where it just sort of

Yeah, creèmeong glaze is Yeah. English

cream or English custard but just

refined. Interesting.

I don't know which came first.

So So like from the American pudding

point of view, we would see your custard

and we would say that is our pudding.

Sure. But then we get a a mass of

coagulated uh pork's blood inside of an

intestine cooked until it is nice hard

slicable and fried and served with eggs

for breakfast. For breakfast. Yeah. A

little starter with some scolops.

Yum. Yum. I love that.

And then you go, "Well, that's pudding."

Yeah. Because it comes from bud, right?

Which is a French word. So like

literally pudding I think is more the

shape of the thing which is why over the

years a pudding cooked in a some kind of

uh sack

sack intestine or or bladder of a pig or

something um like that

that shape was a pudding

and therefore various puddings sweet and

savory that were cooked in pudding bowls

were also pudding shaped. So pudding

became I think a shape. Oh,

so the etmology is from the shape of

with which you are cooking a filling of

something

I think. So I I've heard that the

etmology had to do with not the shape

but the slurry that is put into a shape

that is put into

the way

that's the way it was explained to me

and I think we talked about this we may

have talked about this together with Max

Miller from Tasting History and he of

course knew he was like well you don't

know about the great pudding flood of

1838. Of course I don't Max.

Um but I I've heard it has to do with

the idea of like a slurry cuz if you

look at like

I don't know like when you steam a

pudding like a Christmas pudding I mean

it is kind of loose and and runny right

in the same way that if you're making

budan or black pudding you're starts off

wet

then

wet. So, a pudding is kind of anything

that just kind of starts off wet and

then is maybe given a shape by something

like a pig's bladder.

Isn't for confirmation.

I don't know. Looking at you to save me.

But I mean, it's literally so so iconic

in

the UK. I mean, Pudding Lane was where

the Great Fire of London began.

Um, and that was literally, you know,

it's it goes back so far, but it is

still evolving.

Mhm. Is there a difference between a

Christmas pudding and a Christmas cake?

Is there a difference?

Yes. So, a Christmas pudding is pudding

shaped.

Okay.

A cake is cake shaped.

So, it's a shape. Okay.

But but they are also different

ingredients. One would be sort of

steamed whereas a Christmas cake is

generally baked.

A pudding is norm a pudding is almost

always steamed.

I think a Christmas steamed or boiled.

So, it would be in its container and

then

like a white pudding or a black pudding

is boiled um or steamed. Steamed in a

pudding bowl in a steamer. A white

pudding. So black pudding is pork splud.

White pudding is that just pork fat.

Yep. With her and spice and delicious.

It is really delicious. We we had Do you

remember having that one?

Many times. Many, many times.

What a delight. Um there's something

called a steak and kidney pudding

which I've never had.

I've never heard of that before.

Steak and kidney pudding. Ah. So again,

I think it's pudding shaped. It's cooked

in a pudding bowl, but it's made with

sew it pastry.

Okay. Okay. I know about sewing is

obviously a beef fat in flour bound

together. It's quite soft, but you can

mold it around the outside of the

pudding. And then you fill it with

things that need long slow cook.

Usually, possibly already stewed. So,

beef,

beef and kidney or steak and kidney,

sometimes oyster. So, beef and oyster

pie. Um, and these go in lid on top and

the whole thing gets steamed and

sometimes baked as well. That's a a

savory sew it pudding.

Interesting. Steak and kidney pie also

exists. also exists,

but that's in a pie tin and the crust is

and the crust is different.

It could be a different

but actually I think the difference

being pies are baked whereas puddings

are generally steamed or boiled.

It's a it's a dry cook as opposed to a

violently wet cook for the pudding.

Uh which is interesting because like if

you look at pudding is the sort of

pudding and pie are are like the nouns

like the large scale

descriptors.

There's like dumplings that are like

steamed versus fried, right? And that

doesn't change the fact that they're

dumplings.

Uh even like like like yoza, right? Or

like like what is it? Jouza. Um like you

know just your like average dim sum

dumpling, right?

You can get them either fried or

steamed, but they're still dumplings.

It's like a steak and kidney pie versus

steak and kidney pudding. They're

they're pretty close to each other

in terms of fillings and it is literally

just what's outside. But I I would hate

to draw the line at saying all puddings

are boiled or steamed cuz then you have

Yorkshire pudding

which

which is a wet slurry of sorts. that's

baked and

it's also kind of shaped. It's just

three ingredients and it's so delicious

and no roast beef dinner should be

without one.

I I do agree with that.

I agree.

I um I had something that felt very

American and in fact when I ate it in

London I think the entire line was

Americans.

It was called a Yorkshire burrito.

Yeah,

I have seen this before on the internet

and

intrigues me thoroughly. Not a single

Queen's accent in that line, but a lot

of Americans holding iPhones, including

me.

Tell the people what was in it.

You can get several different kinds. All

I made sure to ask for was an extra. Do

they call it a parcel of gravy? What do

they generally call

jug?

A jug.

Yeah, jugs of gravy.

Gravy on the side. But it was it was

some sort of like stewed and shredded

beef. Um, there's a large Yorkshire

pudding that they sort of flatten out to

be roughly the shape of,

which is a real shame because the beauty

of a Yorkshire pudding is the way it

rises and the crisp edges, but you can't

do that if you need to actually roll it.

So, you lose some of the nuance of of a

Yorkshire pudding by rolling it.

If you're eating a Yorkshire burrito,

you're not there for nuance.

How big? How when I think of

big,

but not as big as like a Chipotle

burrito.

When I think of Yorkshire puddings, I

always think of them in these really

beautiful like tins. Yeah. Yeah. Like

the shape of our

muffin cases or tins. And the thought of

someone making an XL one and then

flattening it and then putting a bunch

of [ __ ] in it. I don't know what else to

say.

There was a period of time uh it was the

rise of the gastro pub in the UK. The

smoking ban kicks in. So suddenly pubs

have to offer a bit more and and food

improved broadly speaking. Um and there

were a lot of pubs and pub chains that

were serving entire roast dinners or

bangers and mash inside of a large

Yorkshire pudding. The Yorkshire pudding

filled the entire plate. I think that's

the ones they now roll.

Yum.

There you go. There's the Yorkshire

burrito.

And and it it began in uh in Yorkshire

in York, but now you will see them in

street food vendors all over.

And I I was in Camden Market, which I

was not prepared for the crowd density

of Camden Market.

Market's dope. I've heard a lot of

bootleg system of a down t-shirts from

little place there covered in Yorkshire

burrito stains. But the York or

Yorkshire pudding, um, if it's that

large, it kind of it's more of almost

like a Dutch baby.

Yeah. And

I agree with you. I agree. Yeah. Yeah,

that makes sense. But I I don't know,

man. It's just so nebulous. It's like

salad

because it's also a time of day.

It's it's also it's a course, right?

It's like you're certain and I think

it's it it ascends class, right? The

queen used to love pudding,

but also, you know, the miners will stop

and have pudding in their family meal

for the working class. And it basically

transcends the whole generation. Pudding

is have you still got room for pudding?

When you finished your main course, have

you still got room for pudding would

always be like a a thing and it's a it's

a time of the meal time as well as the

specific thing you're eating.

Yeah. When you like when you said like

custard is a human right, I I think like

pudding is a human right, there is

almost like an actual like class pro

labor element to that in a way, right?

Certainly cantens, whether they be

school cantens or office cantens,

government cantens, they would always

always have two courses. It would be the

savory and then pudding. And pudding

would often be a steamed sponge or a

roly poli or something that was sew

based lashings of custard. Um, as times

move on,

menus change, but that was kind of

always the staple.

Well, even even the modern dessert,

right? It's like um God we got to go

back in history for this but but like

post French revolution like dessert

comes from like service roose which was

like in the kind of Louis the 14th royal

court where like deserve means to clear

the table and to give you like a a sweet

course that kind of transformed into

these like very ornate sort of like

fruit displays where they would have a

court cook who would make these insane

sugar sculptures and dessert was

considered this like very highass

ariodite thing but it like sort of

started democratizing leading up to the

French Revolution with more like flour,

refined flour and sugar available.

And so then like these democratic

desserts became like very important

symbol of the revolution of like

everybody should have access to these

sweets now. This is what we fight for.

Which is very much like a French thing.

I feel like holding space for pudding is

I think it's also the sentiment like

dessert is plated.

Yeah.

Pudding is a memory.

It's like it's like it's like it's a

nostalgia. It's like it takes you to a

place that's like pudding was always a

place of comfort. Whether that was

around the family table or at Christmas

with Christmas pudding you have everyone

around. Pudding is a a moment whereas

dessert is something that's plated and

delicious and refined.

In school in school they serve your

pudding as well. Yeah. What was that

about? Tell me about your favorite

school.

Jam rolly poli steamed puddings. I mean

like a crumble. So hot fruit with

crumble and custard um would be a

pudding. Although not technically a

pudding but it would be pudding the

course. Um, I I can see your confusion.

Um,

yeah. Can you pudding question marks?

You can have pudding for pudding or you

can have not pudding for pudding.

You have pudding for breakfast.

Pudding is to the UK what salad is to

the US.

That's all this is. Cuz didn't you guys

just have something called Snickers

salad? Like

Yeah. I am so sorry you didn't get you

came in with your spoon.

The whole crew had just ascended this.

I know. It's fine. I'll just make it

myself later. But basically like salad

is such a nebulous term because you have

like strawberry pretzel salad from the

south. You got Snickers salad and then

you have something like a garden salad

or a salad bar at Sizzler. So it's the

same exact thing. Pudding is salad.

That's actually I think it's a pretty

reasonable. It's a catch

katch.

Yeah,

I feel good about that.

What would What would you say links

American salads? Also, do you use those

like constructions like the salad

construction in the UK? Like surely you

have potato salad and pasta salad

and like these are just heavy carbs

bound with mayonnaise or um we'll have a

like egg salad sandwich which is just

hard eggs mashed up mayonnaise not a

salad but hey it falls under the salad

bracket.

I think it might be you salad something,

right? You're salading something. So

you're taking it. Let me explain. So you

take like for example chicken salad and

a Greek salad. You're chopping up things

relatively fine. You're throwing it in a

bowl with some sort of binder and then

you're mixing it up in a bowl and you're

feeding it to someone. That's what

constitutes

a salad.

And it has to come back to your your

phrase of sort of ethmology and words

like salad comes from salt.

Celery, salami, salad. So, you're right.

It's that seasoning of chopped up

things.

Yes.

Yeah. Anything you ch sometimes the

Snickers and the apples can be seasoned

with cool weather

and that sort of still follows

seasonal, isn't it?

Was there mayonnaise in that at all?

No. Some people do add

Go ahead.

Some people do add mayonnaise to cool

whip based salads, but for me, the

mayonnaise salads and the cool whip

salads are different. Diagram should not

overlap.

Also, do you do you know what Cool Whip

is? Do you guys have that?

Honestly, I kind of glossed over that

cuz I presume that everyone at home knew

what it was earlier and I was just like,

"Yeah, sure."

I was God, I was just talking to someone

about Cool Whip. It um it was invented

in god I think like the 1950s very space

age kind of stuff where American food

companies were trying to figure out how

do we produce food as cheaply and

readily available as possible right

so like what if instead of whipping

cream we could use like hydrogenated

vegetable oils

up when margarine was coming you know

it's literally like butter is to

margarine as whipped cream is to cool

whip and legally they're not allowed to

call it whipped cream so they call it

whipped topping uh and it kind of I I

love cool whip but it also definitely

tastes like shaving cream.

I don't like oil.

It has that It has that kind of

consistency where when you're shaving in

a little bit. Yeah.

It says on the package, do not mix cuz

it completely deflates and it turns into

this globby hydrogenated oil mess. So, I

don't I don't really deal with cool whip

that much anymore, but I'm glad that we

have at least a little bit of a

consensus of what salad is and what

pudding is, but what what do you call

something like rice pudding whenever you

like get it somewhere? I know you

probably don't eat a lot of rice pudding

or tap at a lot of rice pudding rice

pudding like because all of these things

they're just it goes back to a feeling

and a vibe and a mood and a comfort

blanket. It's the same reason why

the term pudding can be um a term of

endearment. You might call your loved

one a pudding as you might do sweet

cheeks or dumpling and they're kind of

they're a bit like backhanded but

they're kind of it's a term of

endearment that you could call someone

my pudding. I've never been called

someone's pudding, but I'm open and

available to being called someone's

sweet cheeks. I'm trying to think other

ones, right? Sweet cheeks.

Like the idea of pudding and kind of

like institutionalizing pudding as a

time something for everyone.

Is one of the things I wish American

food culture had more of are these sort

of institutions and like holding space

for it. And y'all do tea pretty

seriously.

Do you think those two were kind of

related? Like do you hold space in your

own life for tea?

I'm more of a coffee kind of guy, but I

I tea time drink. Tea is a time.

Tea is a time and a drink. And depending

where you are in the country, it's a

meal. Like you stop for tea, which is

actually dinner.

Um

it's it's a confused land that we live

in. Um but tea is so important.

Yeah. Cuz my my so my grandma is South

African, right? She's a Lithuanian Jew

whose family like escaped the pgrams in

the Russian Empire and ended up in South

Africa and she was educated in very like

Victorian schools.

And so it's weird because I grew up with

you know my grandma sort of like

lionizing the monarchy and like making

like making me tea even though I was

like granny I don't like this because

she had these very kind of like British

tendencies but that was always a thing

was like we're sitting down for tea

which means we're sitting down for

conversation she's going to drink a cup

of tea. I might be eating a chips a

holoy cookie or something, but that was

still tea. To spill the tea is to to

gossip and you know even those phrases.

And yet it's relatively recent before

tea it was coffee houses in London that

were doing the rounds for like big

thinkers and then hot chocolate when

that first came across. Um and it was

only quite later that tea afternoon tea

became a thing and it became an occasion

as well as a drink.

Do you have pudding houses?

More recently there are people

rebranding it. The pudding stop is an

amazing dessert place where you just go

for dessert. So you have to kind of you

go to a restaurant, you excuse yourself

after the main course, get the check,

and then you go to the pudding stop just

for dessert.

It's kind of cool.

America needs a pudding stop.

Are they taking franchise opportunities

from America?

That sounds incredible

because there is something binding most

British dessert puddings, most British

sweet puddings that I do really love

that I think we miss. We were talking

about it earlier. Check out our episode

on Mythical Kitchen, by the way. It's

one of the most fun things we've ever

done. But, uh, we had wet bread and you

initially made the claim that I do not

like wet bread. We had like a pueblo

slopper.

I'm sorry.

PBlo slopper. That's our term of

endearment in America.

We'll put the pueblo slopp.

It's uh, we're trying to fool him with

fake regional American foods. Okay. He

was trying to fool me with fake British

foods. And we had a pblo slopper, which

is very real, but it's a whole burger

dowsted in green chili. So, everything's

just soggy. Sounds like a good

But even for me, like a French dip

sandwich, I I while I I get it and it

tastes amazing, it's just the texture of

soggy bread. I just soggy bread, soggy

scones, I I don't mind like uh I mean,

you guys would call them biscuits, but

like scones baked on. We don't we won't

go there, but like uh like cobbler baked

on top of a stew and there's a little

bit of stodgy in the bottom, but most of

it is nice and crisp and fluffy and

light. I just don't like the soggy

scone bread biscuit vibe. But then we

brought up Trifle, which is pudding,

which is a pudding, which is different.

So, trifle is pudding.

It is.

Or does it contain pudding?

It's an option you can have for pudding

and it contains

because pudding is what? A vibe.

Pudding is a vibe. And trifle is But my

grandma used to make a trifle. She's

terrible at cooking. But big trifle

bowl, but it would just be some

variation of like fruit, jam, custard,

cake, all just sort of sitting and

soaking together.

Yeah, I love that. A lot of British

sweet puddings are what I would just

call slops. You know,

they're quite stodgy. They're quite

dense. I jam roly pololi. They're made

from sew it pudding. It's, you know,

it's 15 beef.

Oh my god.

And I love that. Like these are

literally my ideal desserts. What's my

favorite uh dessert that we had recently

together at a restaurant? It was given

to us for free. We just talked about it

recently.

I don't know. I don't remember anything.

A Vietnamese restaurant.

Oh, Ja.

Ja. Have you ever had like these

Vietnamese kind of it's a Vietnamese

pudding j it's pronounced like jad but

it's kind of ch with a diitical but they

will just make any sort of like sweet

kind of stodgy pudding out of like taro

or mung bean or sweet corn and it's just

it's just dense and it's sweet

it's appetizer with sugar

like pretty much that is what it is

and I feel like that same just like

dense sweetness exists in a lot of

British puddings that we don't have and

that frankly like a French pastry

program is a bit too light for days,

but there is I I just feel like it's

coming back as well. There's and it's

been around for a long time, but there

are literally things called the pudding

club, and it's a group of people who

meet once a month, like the first

Thursday of every month, and they just

have multiple courses of pudding. Um,

and it's to keep it's to keep it alive

cuz some of these desserts are quite

old-fashioned, like the spotted dick,

classic, but it's a it's a classic

pudding. It's pudding shaped. It's

steamed or boiled, steamed. Um, but no

one's making that anymore. So, you kind

of need these institutes, the pudding

club, to to keep them alive,

right? Right.

Because otherwise, you guys turn it into

custard.

That's a fair point.

We're going to turn it into custard.

What What do you think the top British

puddings are? Like, if you were to rank

your favorites.

I mean, my favorites versus the ones

that are probably most iconic. Um, it's

definitely a crumble would be a good

pudding, but then the actual puddings

themselves, um, a spotted dick or a jam

roly pololi, um, they would be pretty

classic. And then you've got rice

pudding, hot or cold. I'm having so much

fun. I'm having

I don't think I've ever said the word

pudding so many times.

I feel like I'm learning so much as

someone who's only been to the UK once.

I'm really really learning a lot about

the dessert culture, but also like why

is beef sew it utilized so much? Like

like I know it might not be utilized now

as much, but why was it so common? Why

not just use butter or something else?

Hugely calorific, delicious, and readily

available as a byproduct. It was back

when nose totail cooking was a necessity

as opposed to a trend. And I feel like

it would be nice to go back to some of

that, but it's using every part of the

animal. So, why not use the fat from

around the internal organs of a cow?

And it wouldn't make it taste any like

particular way, right? Like

it's fairly tasteless

unlike a tallow where if you melt it

down and that's absolutely delicious and

cook everything in tallow, but um so it

doesn't make your pudding taste beefy.

Got it. Got it. See, that was always one

of my like anxieties whenever we would

make like pudding for the show or

something that I'm like, I don't want to

use the beef sew it. I'm going to use

the I think it's called a tora or a

tora. I'm going to use my dream

basically.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to use the

vegetable sew it, which is just these

little like uh little pellets that just

melt into

But also insane that they call it

vegetable sew it. You know what I mean?

Cuz sew it is such a wildly specific,

you know, visceral fat product and like

we've done it vegetarian style, you

know?

Right. Right. Right. Right. But then

gelatin like all the set like whether

it's bl or trifles or or just jellos

like that's just pork gelatin. So like

we we like throwing

meat and dairy at our desserts.

Yeah. So the way you pronounced

blong

made me think of something recently has

nothing to do with pudding but it has to

do with

Well, no, because I was thinking about

this. How do you say the the Mexican

dish that's like a tortilla with meat

and you fold it?

Well, no. It's the simpler one.

Oh.

Oh, a taco.

Taco, right?

Taco. That's

everyone ends up texting somehow. But

no, I was thinking about this recently

because um I didn't realize that British

people pronounce

quasonant as quasant generally.

Quasant. Yeah.

And how do you pronounce it?

How do you pronounce it?

Croissant.

Croissant. But like we put the T on the

end of it. Yeah. We very heavily like

Americanize it. Just like croissant.

Give me a croissant. And for us to say

like croissant, you'd be you'd seem so

posh, so pretentious. But we pick and

choose because we'll we'll say cross on

for sure. But then the moment you say

I'm off to Lari this weekend, everyone

thinks you know you're a bit of a

wanker. Like that's the where is the

line of which words do you anglicize and

which do you not? But we we say it the

French way.

But even just like the proximity to

France from England versus like say our

proximity to Mexico because anytime a

British influencer says taco then

everyone gets mad and I'm like no.

Do you get mad?

No, of course not. Because when we say

taco, you probably hear an R in there.

Yeah.

Taco.

We the we we speak with a rodic R.

He don't.

Okay.

And so when we say pasta Yeah. pasta

pasta.

P A R S T A. But pasta you would say

with an R in there.

Oh my god. I feel like I'm getting a

linguistic.

But then we we we have a north south

divide on any word that's bath and bath.

Like

I would love

grass and grass.

I would love to also ask you about

cookies and biscuits. What's the deal

with that, man?

Because they got cookies now, too.

That's the thing that trips me out.

Well, yeah. Like something like an Oreo,

like whenever you have something like an

Oreo in like the stores, what are those

called? Are just called Oreos?

I think that's a cookie. And the reason

it's a cookie is I think it's a American

thing that's come back. Whereas I think

biscuits are very British.

Um, we have biscuit tins. We love the

classic biscuit. Um, good for dunkers.

But then you guys have the cookie.

Okay.

And we're happy to take your cookies and

love those too. Uh, but if we give you

biscuits, you mess it up and put it on

like casserole. Oh yeah,

wait. Let me let me rephrase. So So a

biscuit, you guys call a biscuit, we

call a cookie.

Yep.

And then what we call biscuits, you guys

call scones,

basically. Yeah.

And what we call scones?

What are those

scones?

I think it's still But there's like a

sweet scone. Yeah, cuz you guys can make

like a plain scone, right? For us, a

scone, it's always going to have some

sort of like sugary glaze

inherent, right? But we we'll make

cheese scones as well and herby scones

as well.

We have those two. We have those two.

We'd understand it.

We have those two.

We don't understand it. We We have it,

but I don't recognize it. You know,

so a chocolate chip biscuit

y

is a It's not a chocolate chip.

And yet we're still not doing it

correctly cuz a biscuit literally means

twice cooked. Most of our biscuits we

look like a biscotti. Most of our

biscuits we only cook once.

What are you showing us, Josh?

We should have made this. I don't know

if you've had this before. Biscuits and

chocolate gravy.

Oh, I mean I'm not against it. Looks

like pudding. It's It's pudding. This is

American pudding.

Biscuits and chocolate pudding. And see,

I even said it myself.

No, it's chocolate gravy.

Chocolate gravy,

which is We've made this from scratch.

And as I was making it, I went, "Oh,

it's really just pudding, huh?"

What did we learn today, gentlemen?

Pudding has to be eaten with a spoon,

and it feels like comfort.

And I think America should

institutionalize more pudding breaks.

You know, in in every workplace, in

every municipality, in every school,

pudding breaks. It's Nicole and I for

president 2028.

I'm not running

the pudding party.

I am not running for president.

[Music]

All right, Nicole and Ben, we've heard

what you and I have to say. Now it's

time to find out what other wacky idiots

are rattling out there in the universe.

It's time for a little segment we call

opinions are like casserole.

[Music]

Do you use the term casserole?

Yeah. What does it mean?

Yeah. What do you a little bit?

What does it mean to you?

A slowcooked stew.

Like a a casserole for a casserole is

lots of things in a pot that casserole

the verb to casserole

to casserole to pudding to salad

from the French casserole maybe

or just

Oh my god.

Hi guys. I love your podcast. Uh, I am

calling because I have a question to see

if uh

what you guys think of cream of wheats,

cocoa wheats, or uh just plain white

rice with milk, sugar, and butter.

Wait, hold on. She said cream of wheat

and then what was the other thing?

Cocoa wheat.

What is cocoa wheat? Are these cereals?

Uh, are you familiar with cream of

wheat? No. So all of them are we have

various different kinds of

fina fina farina. Okay. Okay. Fina. Oh,

it's just cocoa cream of wheat. Uh

moltomeal.

Oh, okay. So this is literally just

coarse ground wheat that you mix with

like water or milk. Generally

you end up with a porridge. I mean

porridge is any grain

or a hasty pudding.

Or a hasty pudding.

Is that what hasty pudding is?

Yeah. It's made in a haste, right?

Yeah. Something quick.

Wait, what? So I think the closest we

probably have is something like palenta

which obviously is corn maze based but I

don't think we have a wheat based

version.

Interesting. Yeah. So we have cream of

wheat, but this is like a little

old-fashioned. Like I don't know a ton

of people who would eat cream of wheat

these days.

I was raised on cream of wheat. Um it

was actually the specific Persian one

called shir neeshast.

Oh, funny.

Which is called just called wheat starch

and my mom would make it and then she

would sprinkle nesquick on it. or she

would do honey.

And let me tell you, if I were to eat

that now, I would instantly go I would

have a ratatouille moment of going back

to my childhood. It is absolutely

delicious. Any sort of like creamy,

soft, spoonable

and that has to be warm, right?

It has to be warm. If it if not, it just

solidifies into like a brick.

You got a skin on the top and you know

what you do with the skin is a

challenge. 10 out of 10. Do you scrape

and leave or do you chew through?

I mash I mash it in. I just if I get

skin bits, I get skin bits. It's fine.

I would love to eat that now, actually.

Like right now, immediately.

But then she went on to say rice with

like milk and butter and sugar. That's

just like rice pudding. Like I'm on

board with that.

Yeah. Yeah.

But also like like grits. You can just

take any grain that you roughly process

and then mix with like a milk or water

in something sweet is like a delight. I

just I'm in on all of it. some loose

grits which are different from palenta

because they're nixtomalized.

Mhm.

The color is different in my head.

Whenever I think of grits, I think of

white. When I think of palenta, I think

of yellow. But that's not always the

case.

So grits are I believe I believe homony

grits which are like the white southern

grit are treated with lie which or or

lime lime lime like an alkali solution

to break it down.

And I love grits. I like sugar and

butter and grits. I'm

Yeah. So we we do the same with oats.

So, our porridge would just be classic

oats.

Yeah. Yeah. And then palenta we think of

as a very Italian thing. Um and grits

for sure. Love that.

More gr in 2025.

More gr

up top. Grl.

Give me a high five. Hello.

I have one of you.

I have shoulder issues. One of you

high-fiving for gr. Sure.

Yes.

Thank you to my rot.

Hey, girl. Sexy

for your your sandwiches. I'm My name is

Sam. I'm from

Victoria, BC, Canada.

Bananas and mayonnaise.

Oh, shut up.

Toasted.

No.

Try it. That sounded like a dare. A

challenge.

Ben, what say you? Bananas and

mayonnaise.

I'm trying to get my head around it and

ask why. Um, but actually like

mayonnaise on bread before you toast it.

Delicious. Works. Uh, banana sandwiches

we used to have as a kid, which is a

very odd thing. Banana and honey

sandwiches, but it was never toasted.

Yeah.

Although occasionally you'd put those in

those toast machines, maybe a little bit

of chocolate spread or honey and banana.

So, yeah, it's the mayonnaise that

bothers me. I don't know why.

Uh, this is a this is a very southern

thing.

Mhm.

Uh, my I dated a girl whose family is in

high school, family from Louisville,

Kentucky. Not Louisville, Louisville.

So, it's officially pronounced. and her

mom made me a banana crunchy peanut

butter and mayonnaise sandwich

for the first time and I was like

utterly blown away. Like the slight acid

and salt from the mayonnaise with like

the creamy crunchy of the peanut butter

with the sweet cakey banana

toasted I I wouldn't do. I just I love

untoasted bread. I think I don't like

toast as much as people. I think I just

want to experience the bread,

you know? But it is a delay. And like

when you ask why bananas were such a new

thing in like the early 1900s that so

many of the early recipes people are

like

we don't know what you're supposed to do

with these. So what if we wrapped them

in ham and baked them with Holland days?

Yeah. Yeah.

People like why not? Sure.

Was that a Maryland thing, right?

Is it a Maryland thing? It might be

wrapped in bacon and grilled off. But

yeah,

we made we made a banana and mayonnaise

cake once.

Did you really? It it worked fine. It's

like a cheat cuz basically you're adding

eggs and oil into a cake. It's already

done for you. That makes sense. It's a

hack more than anything else.

Adding mayonnaise to cake makes a lot of

sense to me. I actually this morning I

had a Nutella, banana, and peanut butter

toast and it was delicious.

I could never imagine putting bananas

and mayonnaise on that toast.

So, I'm going to politely decline.

Sorry, bestie. It's just not It's not my

wheelhouse. It's just not where I'm at.

It's not where I'm at in my life. Thank

you for suggesting it. I'm just not

there.

I think on my last me, like my last

meal, I might have a whole wheat

sandwich with peanut butter, banana, and

honey. That might be on there. It's one

of my favorite foods in the world.

Still no mayonnaise.

Still no mayonnaise

on a special. Don't knock it till you've

tried it, but it's not one I'm going to

be hastily jumping to.

Yeah.

Hi Josh, Nicole. Nicole Masleto on the

baby. Matt here. Just want to share my

latest food hack and it is not the

jalapenos but the pickling juice of

Trader Joe's hot and spicy jalapenos.

It's been working wonders for me in the

kitchen. Use it for a little bit of

acid. Use a little bit for a little bit

of heat. Little bit of the sweet and the

heat kind of mellow things out. I've

done it in everything from tacos to

soups to uh barbco. It's absolutely

delicious. Hope to hear your thoughts.

Bye.

Good thoughts.

Yeah,

great thoughts. Pickle brine's a great

ingredient. It's like using the beef sew

it. Use every part of the pickle.

If you went to uh what's our fan William

Sonoma?

We have no correlation to Williams and

Sonoma.

What do you mean?

You did one of these. Like we love

William.

No, like you seem like a William Sonoma

person. Do you know William Sonoma

demo? Yeah, it's fancy.

Another compliment. Love it.

If you went to William Sonoma, I've just

gotten so many gifts cuz people like he

likes food. Let's get them an $18 weird

little thing of salt that is too crunchy

to put on any of my food.

Right. Right.

Um but we love William Sonova. Sponsor

us. But anyways, uh they'll sell like

these nice glass bottles of like vinegar

that have been infused with like a

single chili and a single piece of

garlic or something. Like $15.

Yeah.

The jalapeno juice is just the same

thing but better. You know,

it's been well seasoned. It's good to

go. I would say that is the biggest

difference between home cooks and chefs

is seasoning. Yeah, when you say season

something, home cooks will throw salt at

it. But actually, we always talk about

the seasoning triangle and actually it's

a combination

of salt, sugar, and acid. And actually,

those three things all exist in a pickle

brine. So, with a little tingle.

True. You ever hear the You ever hear

the Hannibal Burrus joke about how

sometimes he wants pickle flavor on his

sandwich, but he doesn't want the whole

pickle, so he just dips his fingers in

the juice and flicks it.

Is that the joke?

I never finger the pickle jar when you

see it.

That's the one thing I hate.

What?

Fingering the pickle jar. Oh.

Oh, I hatch

your pickles go soft because of your

finger.

Yes. And then sometimes there's a weird

white film and I don't like the white

film around it.

Use a fork.

Use a Use a fork. Your flora and fauna

gets in the pickle brine completely

ruins the

stopped. I high five. Not the grill, but

I'll high five that one.

She She like got on me about that. Gave

me the whole spiel like maybe a couple

weeks ago. I didn't even tell you this.

I was like, "Okay, Nicole." And then I

went home. My jar of Bubbies pickles.

Just a full white layer of fill.

I told you. You think it's

Bubby's pickles that I too many fingers.

I finger every single night.

You think I'm just doing it for a power

play? I'm literally trying to improve

your life.

I've officially stopped. I've officially

stopped.

Hi guys. Hi Maggie. Maggie is my

favorite. Um my opinion is that meat and

fruit are not paired together nearly

enough. Yeah, you can rais chicken salad

and yeah, you can you can do this and

that, but I'm talking I'm talking ground

beef. Ground beef and frozen

blueberries. I'm talking my personal

favorite,

grilled chicken breast and overrite

banana.

I'm telling you fruit, please and thank

you.

Eating like a bear.

Put the meat back in mince meat. You

know

what's good pudding.

The um It's so right though like but I

maybe not on a grilled skewer grilled. I

always think of it as slow cooks like a

a nice tine or like Persian food loves

that meat sweet combo.

Pomegranate molasses

tamarind things. That's so good.

I agree.

Please and thank you. Agreed.

I was 100% with it because I I agree

with you. I love that kind of like North

African, Middle Eastern. You even see it

a lot in like dishes from kind of the

Middle Ages across Europe.

Sugar was such a luxury. It was like

when you've got it, put it in

everything.

Yeah, 100%. And like almond milk was in

everything. Um but uh

Oh, what was I talking about? Oh, um the

the grilled chicken with the overwrite

banana though. That took a little bit of

a turn.

That's why I went down here. The

blueberries and ground beef. Yay.

That's an interesting one. I've never

tried that.

Chicken and bananas. Yay.

Uh, but no, I guess maybe like a like a

fried plantain kind of situation like

like maduros. Good again. Yeah, good

again.

But yeah, the the blueberries are a bit

of a a turn. There is though, there's

some steak restaurant in Florence that

like makes a blueberry sauce for their

their bistca florentina.

Yum.

And so I don't know if that's a

canonical thing.

All of our roast meats are nicely accomp

we have or chicken we have with

cranberry sauce, roast pork with

applesauce. Like that's where the fruit

meat, the roasted fruit meat combo does

work.

More fig jam

with your meats.

I mean, I'm more figs. Full stop.

Sure. Sure. I agree.

Figgy pudding.

There's no figs in figgy pudding.

Correct.

Put the figs back in figgy pudding.

We're all being back and mince me.

We're all being duped.

Hey, this is Matt from Orlando, Florida.

And my wife just told me yesterday

that

when you're eating a burrito,

the proper way to do it is to cut it in

half.

Yeah.

And eat both halves down to the butt and

throw away the excess tortilla.

What?

That's what you think.

Wasteful.

No mame way. No mameus.

That sounds like that stems from a a

pasti. a Cornish pasti or or the

empanadas where the crust was

deliberately because you had mucky

fingers, right? Maybe that's the same

with a burrito. You you eat and get rid

of the mucky ends.

But I kind of like the ends.

Yeah. Wait, what's what's the deal with

the Cornish pasti?

The way that is folded and crimped the

the crust traditionally was for the

miners who would have incredibly dirty

um coal uh ridden hands basically would

eat the pasti and they it was almost

like the the bit you hold on to and then

you would never eat the crust that would

just go. But it was the way you would

hold on to a pasti.

Yeah. It's like the corn cob. It's like

you eat around it and you throw it away.

Yeah.

Um, no, I can assure you that burritos

are not are not meant for that. Um, and

actually the one of the reasons you can

know this is if you go to the progenitor

of the burrito in the in the city of

Warez in Mexico, they're actually served

open. So, they don't they don't fully

close them. Um, that seems to be like

the first burrito. So, there would be no

sort of end to throw away because the

fillings throughout. I find the best way

to eat a burrito is you move to it.

Don't bring the burrito to you. You go

to the burrito.

Yes.

Especially if you can sort of stack it

on the table and let it you can just

You guys have never

hit the top.

Vivid. You guys have never ripped like

the the bready top of a burrito and spit

it out like a cigar. Am I the only one

who's done that?

If it's a bad if it's like

if it's a bad burrito, if it's

if it's like a fast food burrito where

the first bite is like cold cheese and

lettuce.

That's what I'm saying. Sometimes you

got to you got to

the ratios are wrong.

Yeah, sometimes you got to do the pouy.

That's just me.

[ __ ] us. Spit out that burrito. Uh I do

think the single best bite of a burrito

is the buddy end.

All the juices.

We're going back to soggy bread if we're

not careful.

We No. Oh, I am not careful. I am going

soggy. I am soggy with a band in here.

I love wet bread.

It's almost like Shaolong bao. It should

be like a soup dumpling where you can

just

right.

And on that note, Ben, thank you so much

for joining us. It's a bit of a delight.

Good fun.

Ben, where can people find you?

Sorted Foods. You can find us all over

socials and YouTube.

That's right. If you want to be featured

on Opinions or Casserles, give us a ring

and leave a quick message at 833 DogPod

1.

We got new audio only episodes out every

Wednesday. New videos out on Sunday over

at the Mythical Kitchen channel. And if

you like seeing our faces, check out our

YouTube show also here or there

depending on where you are. Where are

you right now? Orlando could be. We did

a fun episode with Ben over on Mythical

Catch. Check it out.

See you next time.

Mirror, mirror on the wall. What's the

best pudding of them all? Head over to

Spork's YouTube channel to watch Jordan

and Link's pudding taste test.

They tasted all the Jello Box pudding

classics and a few you haven't tried to

find the very best. Check it out and

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