By
Viewed
156
Please choose the correct answer for each question below:
Questions: 0/2118
Correct: 0
Translate:
hi everyone thank you so much for coming
out and thank you Chris and the conduit
for Lending us this really lovely huge
room again um we must have done
something right next last year um and
hopefully you'll have us back next year
too um and thank you all for coming out
tonight um coming to an event that
promises to make you feel uncomfortable
is a hard sell at the best of times not
least in the middle of January so well
done and thank you um for those of you
who don't know us we're talking to Boos
and we exist to kind of uncover um and
understand and raise awareness of
different taboo subjects which is what
we'll be talking about
tonight it's really important to have
these kind of conversations because they
do deflate and minimize the impact and
the harm that taboo subjects can cause
on people so we really appreciate you
all being here and we're excited to chat
about it last year was fantastic it was
really exciting we had our first ever
today's Tabo launch and then our full
run of events which I think some of the
people in the room came to um so we were
yeah Blown Away by uh people actually
turning up to talk about these
uncomfortable subjects um and we were
really appreciate all those who came who
spoke and who hosted us in their
spaces trying to find out what subjects
people don't want to talk about and then
asking them to talk about is a little
bit tricky and um so it's uh something
to be proud of I think for all of us at
the charity that we managed to make that
happen um and it's people like you guys
who come out who Inspire us to to to do
this and it wouldn't be possible without
you because we'd be talking to ourselves
so thank you before we start talking
about um the taboos this
evening I just wanted to share a little
bit of information to keep us all safe
and
happy we all know that taboo topics need
to be brought out into the open and have
conversations about them in a safe and
supportive way but we're really mindful
that there will be lots of different
people here with different lived
experience of the taboos in this year's
report that we're going to be touching
on so he wanted to let you know in
advance um what they're going to be so
the topics we're going to be touching on
are um body identity and anti-at bias
Suicidal Thoughts non- recent child
sexual abuse and stigma abuse P faced by
parents of children with sen or special
educational needs um so if you need to
step away at the room from the room at
any point please F free and our lovely
colleague and friend Caroline is here
Caroline
wave and she's going to keep an eye on
if anyone needs any extra support and
help you out the room and into a quiet
space and I heard that she's got this
really cool toy with her which hasn't
shown me yet but I think it's apparently
it's really cool yeah
she so plan for this evening it's two
for one on panels um we're going to have
first up these fantastic women will be
revealing the taboos that we found this
year you might have already seen them
flicking through but we'll tell you a
little bit how it got there out of all
of the Tabo that we could why why those
and then our second Channel we'll have a
panel we'll have a little bit of musical
chairs and amazing Benji will be joining
us um we did also have lovely yansy but
she's not feeling very well so I will
hopefully bring a few of her points
points forward because they were
fantastic and I'm sure she'll be at some
of our other events this year um we're
really excited to have Benji here uh and
then we'll have a Q&A so for your first
panel I've got cat Jennings who is the
director of talking to Boos and Louise
who is the chair of Trustees at talking
to booze hi
both can you give me a little
introduction to
yourselves yeah great um so my name's
cat um my pronouns are she her um I'm
the director of the talking to boo
foundation and also a researcher and I
was very involved in the research that
we'll be talking about um this evening
um in terms of a visual description of
myself um I am a average height um woman
with blonde shoulder length hair with
lots of Gray highlights in it um and I'm
wearing my favorite color of uh navy
shirt jeans um and a pair of colorful
shoes
hi I'm Louise I'm a researcher in my day
job as well and I'm the chair of
Trustees of talking to boo terms of
visual description oh I prepared for
this but it's still really hard to
describe yourself in a way that feels
comfortable
middleaged um brown hair no Grays cuz I
colored my hair in preparation for
tonight few wrinkles to betray the
middle-aged because I haven't had Botox
in a while and I'm as for my weight I'm
just not even going to go there that's
me I for got to do mine as well I'm
white I've
got like Boo bling I don't know like
midlength long hair blonde hair and I'm
wearing pretty much all black with uh
blue socks okay so Louise we're really
excited to introduce everybody to our
new chair of Trustees um tell us a
little bit about why you came on board
and also why this room is kind of
important to why you came on board well
I work a lot in health related issues in
my day job whether it's physical or
mental health topics and I talk to
people about those and so I'm aware
through that of how much can go unsaid
uh I came to last year's event and was
really stimulated by that and triggered
um and reflected afterwards about how
learning about any given too and
figuring out how to talk about any given
Tabo can unlock a fresh level of kind of
a new level of comfort and understanding
and how to approach loads of different
tusos um and in my personal life over
the past few years I've been wrestling
with one particular taboo that I've got
um quite deep lived experience of and
then I've been on the sort of receiving
end of participant in conversations
about another couple of tabos that we've
been that were covered tonight and so
across all of that I've been thinking
about how can I better equip myself and
how can I kind of work to support others
to have those uncomfortable
conversations um and I'm really
interested in where there's
intersections across all the different
tabos that we cover and how we can kind
of learn across those intersections and
and to equip ourselves um in general and
we're so excited to have you on board
and also your input and insights to the
report have been amazing did anything
surprise you about what we what we
found um yeah I mean I was really
surprised and we'll get dig into the
methodology in just a second I won't go
into that right now myself cat will
touch on that but I was really surprised
when we get got into the process of
identifying our tabos uh long listing
them short listing them determining
which to cover just how prevalent the
taboos that we're going to cover tonight
are um but then the gap between that
prevalence and our awareness of how
prevalent those are and then the Gap
again to how comfortable we are talking
about them and that kind of speaks to
the very nature of these tabos that we
we experience many of them but we don't
know how to talk about them we don't
feel comfortable to talk about them we
don't necessarily know how to respond
when others bring them up um and then
then there's shame and fear and stigma
that Circle all of that so just the very
nature of the widespread aspect of them
and then the kind of down the funnel to
how how little we talk about them and
how uncomfortable we are to talk about
them um and then just kind of looking at
what's going on in the world around us
just how you know how much is changing
how difficult the backdrop that we're
living in is and how these a lot of
issues that fuel these taboos are
growing whether it's kind of economic
hardship or health issues out there so
kind of really looking at although we're
getting more and more sophisticated and
understanding of how to talk about
sensitive issues actually a lot of
issues are growing and we're still not
sufficiently there in how to have those
uncomfortable conversations and that's
what makes taboos get stronger and and
worse is that silence and I think it's
fair to say in our report some of the
data we found was really eye openening
about how many people are struggling
with these taboos but just not talking
about them at all yeah so um in the
detailed report which will be published
on our our website um tonight you'll get
to see the kind of um data around each
of these individual taboos but for
across all the taboos four in 10 people
um have been personally affected by at
least one of these taboos and six in 10
people have been um affect personally
affected or know someone who has been
affected um by these taboos so we can
get a sense of like how much even
looking at four topics we are talking
about things that affect a broad range
of people um within the UK um to
touching on Louise's point about the
uncomfortability and the lack of
conversations in spite of that
widespread experience of these
taboos of none of the taboos more than
one in five people have had a
significant conversation about these
topics in the last five years in in the
last 12 months so we're seeing that gap
between the experiences but not backed
up by significant conversations and we
know that one of the barriers to that is
around comfortability of those
conversations um and so of again looking
across the taboos only less than half of
people are comfortable having
conversations about each of these topics
only one in five of us is comfortable
talking about all of these topics and so
that's why events like we run and the
purpose of the charity is about getting
people more comfortable talking about
them so that people who are affected um
and experien these two taboos or are
close to people people who are
experiencing these taboos aren't so
isolated and don't experience them alone
as we know they do at the moment and
that six in 10 stat is pretty crazy and
thinking about the room here that's over
half of us who either experience
personally these taboos that we're going
to talk about or know someone who has um
but one in one in five of us or very few
of us are talking about it well let's
get into what the toos are uh you will
have seen them around the room already
so it's not really that much of a
surprise
um but the four that we found that need
most urgent attention this year are um
be helpful if the whole the whole one
came up now but we'll see silence
Suicidal Thoughts surviving child sex
abuse body bias and shamed s
parenting so how did we find them as I
said it's pretty hard to find out what
people aren't talking about but also
kind of want to have conversations about
and we changed our methodology a little
bit this year from last year actually
kind of we we wanted to change it anyway
but it was a couple of questions that we
had in the Q&A here who really spurred
us on so q&as do matter so do ask
questions um Kat can you tell us a
little bit about what we did differently
this year yeah so I think it's we're a
small charity at the moment but we're
definitely growing and we're growing in
the approaches that we use to this piece
of work that we will do on an annual
basis in terms of what we added this
year we wanted to make sure that we were
seing um at discovering these taboos to
people who are working with communities
or in spaces where these taboos um were
emerging and so we added expert
interviews to our methodology with a
particular focus of people working in
health inequalities and with
marginalized and racialized communities
and working in more activism um for
inclusivity roles um and that was really
important for us in making sure that we
were understanding and exploring um
taboos through that intersectional lens
um that we've spoken about and then we
also added um public opinion polling to
our method as well so that we could
understand the size scale and the com
comfortability of these
conversations and then the final change
that we made was that once we had our
four to um we worked with Charities
working in each of these spaces we're
not a taboo specialist we are a taboo
generalist charity rather than AO
specialist charity so it's really
important to us that we partner with
organizations s that have worked and
have deep expertise in these spaces um
so we have spoken to people like
Samaritans the survivors trust um
campaign against living miserably um
obesity UK and also in the report there
are some stories from people who are
experts by experience on these tabos um
and I would highly recommend that you
read those stories because I think they
bring so much to the our understanding
of these taboos yeah they're really
brilliant and thank you to sfia jam and
and Lucy who shared their stories um
okay and then a couple of the things
that we did that last year that we
repeated what were they um so our first
step was trying to uncover the taboos
which is our perennial problem as a
charity of there are so many taboos that
we could be and should be talking about
um so we did an initial long listing
that Drew on um input from events that
we're running like this evening yeah and
you might have spotted this massive box
at the back of the room and some slips
and pens we'd love to hear from you to
kind of put your vote in for the taboos
that you want to hear about next year um
it's the our first step in deciding what
the Tabo are going to be is to look at
what the people around us who are coming
to these events want to hear about from
from all of your experiences so yeah do
add them in there because we really do
use
them um we then um did a discover
discover a i who partnered with us last
year um did another scan of the social
media and media landscape and we've got
a couple of people from Discovery I here
tonight and we are incredibly grateful
for the depth of understanding and the
the scope that they can bring to this so
they helped surface a long list of
taboos um and we uh spoke to experts as
well um who helped highlight um the
taboos that they felt uh needed urgent
attention so Louise you were part of the
long listing uh decision making as was I
was it easy
nope um so I mentioned I've got lived
experience of one in particular and I've
had conversations about another two but
I was very conscious that I didn't want
to bring my own personal bias or
experience to this so that kind of
created a bit of a filter in my mind in
the process and we were all very
conscious about that I think it's fair
to say it's not about us um and so and
there's so much that we could cover so
how do you decide we wanted to be
objective and rigorous in our selection
so we took some time to figure out how
to prioritize what the criteria would be
quite a number of conversations about
that we had a Myro board oh the Myro
board makes all of this so much easier
and lots of kind of sifting and sorting
and brainstorming through that um and
then we eventually through various steps
of um of discussion and criteria
application reached a long list that we
then took into a short list but no it
wasn't easy because there's just so much
as Kat said there's just so much out
there that we don't talk enough about um
so where where do you
begin yeah and we used um as as Louise
said we we spent quite a lot of time
thinking about the criteria with which
we would we would select these so we
looked at Deo that came up across
multiple sources so that had shown up in
the social data um in the um expert
interviews that we conducted in the at
events we also asked our experts um when
we were speaking to them to suggest the
taboos that they felt were most
important within the communities that
they were working with so we we took
that into account um and then sifted
down to to 10 and then how did we get
from 10 to four so that was where we
used our first um public opinion poll to
whittle down from 10 to 4: um we asked
people in that public opinion poll two
questions we asked them which of the top
which of these 10 topics do you feel
most uncomfortable talking about um and
which of these do you want to hear more
conversations about um and there were
some interesting kind of nuances around
that data around the fact that the
uncomfortable conversations were not
necessarily the taboos that people
wanted to hear more conversations about
there was some overlap um we chose two
that came up most highly on most
uncomfortable which was child sexual
abuse and suicidal thoughts and then we
chose two further um taboos that people
wanted more conversations about and they
were body bias and behavioral challenges
in
children suicidal thoughts also came up
as a topic that was high on a lot of
people's list of a conversation that
they wanted to hear more convers hear
more conversations about um and I think
that that that desire around hearing
more conversations about the these is
important but also with child seual
abuse a topic that people are
uncomfortable having a conversation but
did not necessarily select as a topic
that they want to hear more about as us
as a charity it's really important that
we still encourage conversations around
um taboos um that feature on on that
list as well yeah absolutely it's
important to have both of those taken
account of so and with taboos often in
our work we find that there's so many
different challenges within that one
subject that what we're trying to do is
as a charity looking across all taboos
rather than a specific subject charity
is to really get to the heart of what is
causing that to be such a
taboo and what is the action that needs
to happen Louise can you share a little
bit about um shamed s parenting in terms
of yeah what was at the heart of that
taboo yeah I think this is a really
interesting one in that many people here
are probably parents and we bring to um
parenting our own upbringing the culture
that we're absorbing um which is kind of
generally focused on talking about the
experiences of parenting neurotypical
children um and so we look at how
parents of children who fall outside of
the Norms parent and there's a lot of
judgment there's a tendency in culture
today to assume that we can as parents
mold our children really actively and
make them who we want them to be
um and it's our responsibility to make
them into good kind High achieving
children whatever our goals might be and
of course they are who they are from
birth and there's only so much that we
can do to influence that but we bring
this kind of sense of expectation that
we can make children who we want them to
be to how we judge other people and
their children um and there's so much
judgment out there um when we look at
kids who are struggling or who are
behaving in unexpected ways who are
behaving in ways that could be quite
difficult or might be seen as is
unpleasant parents are so often blamed
and what sits underneath that is just a
lack of understanding and then
furthermore a real lack of
empathy and this is so key to what we're
trying to call for is space approaching
things with no judgment and with empathy
and um I know from my work in this space
of uh Suicidal Thoughts that there is
similar misconceptions there's similar
need a similar judgment going on K you
want to share a little bit more about
what we found yeah so I think this Tabo
came up um across uh a couple of expert
interviews fairly early in our initial
discussions um in fact jansy who can't
be here this evening spoke about the
fact that often in her working in
communities around around this topic
people whis young people were Whispering
their feelings to her so there's a
there's a fear about saying and and
telling people about uh Suicidal
Thoughts um but there is also a fear and
stigma that's associated with this
thought there's also around this taboo a
real fear about asking others about
suicidal thoughts and a real fear that
we will make it worse which couldn't be
further from the truth talking about
Suicidal Thoughts openly and N
non-judgmentally is absolutely key to
preventing suicide and we really need to
moove the taboo around having these
conversations I think jamaa who shares
her story in in the in the report talks
about how having these conversations how
being able to be open with friends about
her experience of Suicidal Thoughts has
been the key to keeping herself safe um
and if you don't have someone to turn to
if we don't receive it with an openness
and a nonjudgment um we are putting
people at greater risk um and we know
that
um from our polling data that one in
five people um have experienced Suicidal
Thoughts in the last um f last five
years but only one in three of us feel
comfortable being part of a conversation
about suicidal thoughts and we really
need to improve our capability and our
confidence to be on the um receiving end
and the supporting end of those
conversations yeah absolutely and what
Jamila says is so powerful especially
about how when she's tried to talk about
these experiences it's met with a lot of
sort of she's met with feeling guilty or
or like she's the people she's speaking
to that feel like it's almost like she's
done something wrong which it's yeah
it's so inherent in all the language and
all everything so yeah talking about
them is so important but on the flip
side we have body bias which there's so
much conversation in the media social
media especially about bodies like like
tell us a little bit more about yeah
it's an interesting one cuz it is on the
flip side in terms of the volume of
dialogue and scrutiny that there is with
you verely out there as regards people's
bodies because obviously it's something
that we can visibly easily judge there
is so much judgment and there's so much
a bit like the Sham s parenting one
there's so much kind of sense there that
we can be whoever we want to be that we
can be whatever weight we want to be and
it's be interesting to see kind of how
the availability of drugs to help our
control our weight starts to shift kind
of dialogue around that um but this is
really about kind of that application of
judgment and norms and criticism of
people who fall outside of what's seen
as being desirable or healthy um
feasible even is and it's really then
about that s of complex and competing
set of cultural forces that infiltrate
our relationships with our bodies and
create those body size taboos this is
really strongly informed by social media
um and widely varying Norms in what
people see as feasible healthy and
desirable and there's just so much
judgment out there uh open judgment um
online and in real life yeah absolutely
and I think coming to our our last taboo
that we want to talk about tonight
similar to um silence suicidal thoughts
it's but also taking a little bit of
body bias there is so much
sensationalized coverage of ch or non-
recent sexual abuse um but a real death
of personal
interpersonal like in at the doctor any
those Services there's just a real lack
of provision a real dir of real
conversations around sex abuse and child
sexual abuse um tell us a little bit
more about that so I think that this
this too as as I said earlier was the
one that came up most highly in terms of
uncomfortable conversations and we see
that in the day it's one of the ones
that has got the lowest number of
conversations being had about it and
also the lowest level of confidence um
in speaking about it so I think only
about one in five people feel
comfortable having being part of a
conversation about um child sexual abuse
there is a real as Flo said there's a
lot of kind of like sensationalized
media coverage but very little provision
and support for the longlasting physical
and mental effects of um child sexual
abuse there is a real lack of
understanding of how to support and how
to involve um survivors of um child
sexual abuse in the creation provision
and dedication of services that can
support them with the lasting impacts um
there needs to be much more space for
all of us to be able to be part of those
conversations um and I think you were FL
you were going to share something from
our report there yeah I think sopia
um who shares a lot about her um kind of
approach to this as um sort of Joy
serious joy in in approach to talking
about this sheares a lot about her kind
of community and her experience of this
and how difficult it is to talk about
this and actually she feels like she's
has to look after the people that she's
trying to talk about when she talks
about this which is absolutely the
opposite of course is the way it should
be um so would really recommend reading
what she says because it's it's
incredibly important so before we wrap
up and we switch you guys over um is
there a couple of broader lessons or
takeaways from this last year of working
in Tabo and what we found in this report
to share yeah should I go first so
really it's about pausing and thinking
that everyone has a different set of
experiences a different
backstory experience es that we don't
know about inner Minds that we don't
know about and just pausing on our
Judgment of whatever we see presenting
itself in their attitudes their language
their behavior and bringing empathy so
really just creating that space for
empathy and compassion and not rushing
to judge not rushing to assume that they
come with the same kind of set of
circumstances and experiences and Views
that that we have um creating space for
getting it wrong there's you know this
Council culture out there there's so
much Judgment of people who just kind of
trip up a little bit see the the words
that are not quite the right words these
days that aren't kind of politically
correct um and that's that kind of of
course we need to have an expectation of
what it's okay to say but sometimes that
that kind of judgment that criticism of
of whether we're using the right words
or not can be really qu a bit too strong
and can stop us from speaking and can
lead us to being quick to judge others
for saying the wrong things when it's
not that they're coming with um any kind
of malice it's just that they don't know
necessarily what it's okay to say these
days and that changes vast um and if
you're not necessarily coming with
English as your first language or living
in um if you're speaking in a culture
that's not your own you know Norms can
differ and you may not have that
knowledge of what it's okay to say these
days and what it's not so creating that
space for others to kind of get it in a
ver commas wrong um with a and but also
not expecting that it's um for the
people who have experienced the issues
who are surviving the issues or have
survived the issues to educate you
having the willingness to educate
yourself which is kind of what we're
here for to help us all educate
ourselves um and then kind of opening up
the space um when someone gets it wrong
to um to kind of learn more and with
with curiosity and without judgment
thank you L I think yeah such a key
point is one of the things that we know
that perpetuates too the most is lack of
language and no one deserves to hear or
needs to hear things that you know are
phrased intentionally um to hurt but in
the same space the lack of language is
really stopping us from talking so how
do we get through that how do we get
past that Benji I know we're going to
talk about it in a little bit and your
things that you put out are so helpful
in this space um but it really does shut
down conversation a friend um recently
had an experience where she shared
the wrong terminology for talking about
suicide and she was coming at this from
a completely positive intent trying to
raise awareness and was shut down rather
harshly and then speaking to her
afterwards the reaction to that is well
I never ever want to talk about it again
for fear of getting it wrong and that's
just not helpful when we're trying to
talk about things more so it's a fine
line to tread but it's something we want
to talk about a little bit more yeah um
I think building on on that one of the
things that we've included in our report
at the end is a set of resources um that
not only about providing support for
people who are experiencing um these
taboos but also for
us and in general to better understand
and better equip ourselves with
knowledge around it so I would I would
encourage everyone to try to self
educate around these topics to try to
better equip ourselves there are loads
of really good resources is out there
across all of these topics the more we
learn the more we speak about them the
better we get and making mistakes is
part of that um but it is that's that's
why we talk about being comfortably
uncomfortable exact needs to be safe but
a little bit uncomfortable
exactly guys you've been amazing thank
you so much thank
[Music]
you sorry Beni it's a very torch
we do a little bit of musical chairs and
welcome Benji she's do you want me
to should keep the wine yeah keep the
wine put the phone
down it's the right choice okay welcome
Benji swivel
hi hello thanks for joining us thank you
for having me so Benji was at our most
recent event on the panel talking about
shameful sex which was fantastic couple
of wines then as well I did I love a
good wine all better better conversation
I think exactly um and you've also been
referenc in our report many times an
embarrassing amount of times we've
quoted you um because you're so
fantastic so thank you for joining would
you mind introducing yourself to Ron yes
hi my name is Benji pouna he him I am an
inclusion and well-being consultant
author and to content creator uh see you
may see my face on your fyp maybe if not
at benuzzi follow me um but yeah my
mission is to equip and Empower people
to make a positive difference so I do
that um via HR consultancy I do not
making Tik toks in my bedroom um by
doing a bit of writing doing a bit of
speaking and yeah that's me um visual
description I am uh black
bored uh like 511
um man um masculine
presenting um and I'm wearing a black
vest shirt it's a shirt but it's only
one button so it's a bit scandalous um
and some fabulous gold and black
trousers and some black shiny boots
that's me I was going to say at the
beginning it sounds like your hinge
profile so which is also live follow me
there I'm not joking
why you'll see why if you go and look at
and that not that profile the other
profile you'll see why we're so aligned
in the work that we're wanting to do
here so tell me a little bit about your
Reflections on the report what did you
what first came to your mind what what
kind of sparked for you um I think it
wasn't a surprise to me at all that body
siiz buys was on there I think one of
the things about getting older so I'm
turning 30 this year um and one of the
things about getting older is that
things come back again and I remember
you know I was um a teenager during like
the 2 early 2000s when finbow was a
thing Tumblr and like you know anorexia
on the catwalk and um none of those
things went away but you felt as if like
as Society we kind of decided that
actually that's not okay to promote and
and we knowledge how unhealthy um you
know body um you know restricted body
standards are and um we we have we
having conversation about disordered
eating and that sort of thing and and I
kind of iess naively thought that that
was that was it progress right and now
it's coming back again I'm some Trends
just shouldn't be coming back they
shouldn't but skinny jeans also
apparently coming back they right I
listen and I was a skinny jeans Queen so
I don't know I can put it off now so
please don't that back um but it's it's
really disheartening it's really really
disheartening to see but I'm really
really glad that it's in the report and
that you're talking about it because um
it's becoming so much more socially
acceptable to have um prejudices about
people's bodies and body sizes and body
types um today like more than ever
totally for sure and then I think the
other thing that I wanted to ask you a
little bit about was in our report we
found that silent Suicidal Thoughts was
really prevalent with men
and I know that's something in your work
that you've been kind of working on and
thinking
about yeah definitely um that was also
something that I I wasn't surprised
about um so as part of what I do I'm
really passionate about creating safe
spaces where people can um feel
psychologically safe and free to express
themselves you know how they wish um and
within those spaces um I I'm definitely
hearing specifically from I guess you
know because of my LIF experience myself
like from men right talking about how
they don't feel safe to express
themselves and um as somebody who not
only exists at an intersection um being
um a man who is black and queer but um
also explores intersections as part of
my work right as AFC he work across
intersections um there are so many
intersectional experiences of um you
know mental health struggles uh that we
just don't talk about enough m i I'm
such a shame that yans is not with us
because I know that she has so much
experience working in this space and
like mirrors what you saying and even
then and because she's working in so
many different cultures religions I like
in such a different type mix of
identities and I just wanted to bring up
a few things that she was going to share
which was really about how that is so
important culture intersectionality it's
vital cuz these taboos exist but they
are emphasized the pain is on another
level when kind of those aren't taken
into account 100% And especially when
the services you're looking to for help
don't have an understanding of where
you're coming from right and your
specific LIF experience um you know
speaking for myself um I am Gan by
ethnicity um and in in my culture and in
many similar cultures there are strong
gender Norms when it comes to
masculinity right and you know being a
man it's about being at the man of the
house and being strong and not showing
weakness and and I know that's like
prevent because lot of cult about
talking about my own personal experience
and I'm hearing from other people who
are similar to me and come from similar
cultures and there are so many Norms
that from the outside seem a bit strange
seem a bit weird why don't you just talk
about it or why don't you just reject
that or why don't you just and it's like
hearing people say that clear from a
position of just like ignorance can just
feel really invalidating and we need
more services um that are informed by
either Li experience or like education
right absolutely Louise I was going to
cut them to you on this point as well
yansy you know in our and and Sofia
actually both of them in the report
really call for specialized tailored
Services because they can make the
problem so much worse and I know that
there something you wanted to share
around that like gaslighting almost of
this yeah so really
um difficult thing that I hear parents
of kids with um special educational
needs talking about which is because a
lot of their challenges might live
behind closed doors you know you might
have children who mask in school which
is where they they try to present as
neurotypical um and the stress of that
builds up and they get home and then it
all kind of explodes because they've
been trying to cope in an environment
day-to-day that's not suited to them and
the number number of parents that then
have um challenges where they're just
disbelieved the issues that they're
experiencing in the home are disbelieved
and they're gaset as a result they're
kind of they're they're told us you know
your CH your child's coping fine and I
can't can't believe that they're doing
that and everything's okay if the child
seems to be coping it doesn't mean that
they actually are coping um and then
worse that parents in that situation can
then be blamed as if they're making it
up and scare and like trying to wangle
the system to get additional resources
and that's where there's some terrible
stuff in the media that kind of Paints
the picture of an increase in diagnosis
as being pushy parents trying to get the
best for their children and I mean it's
just obvious the rise in diagnosis
obvious to me anyway is not about people
just thinking it's trendy to get a
diagnosis of Dyslexia or ADHD there's
all sorts of reasons that are genuine
that those diagnoses are on the rise but
it's quite easy to kind of point the
finger and say we don't really believe
it because we don't see it and that kind
of gaslighting can just make the
difficulty of managing all the taboos
that's surround that issue and managing
the parenting experience infinitely
harder because you're the Judgment of
that is really kind of painful and then
you're not getting the support that you
need and that your child needs and
they're just being fundamentally let
down by the system M and I think it's
really interesting to hear you both talk
about kind of the services point because
it did come out really strongly as one
of the things that need to be changed to
help taboos especially these taboos
lesson and what we really wanted to do
in this second part of the panel was
here you've kind of presented you with
the problems and the taboos but also
just to talk a little bit about what
needs to change and what we want to see
change and what we can do about it so
you don't go away so dishearted and
you've got some things to do so homework
some homework go and look at Benji's
Channel um so yeah what are the kind of
things that you want to see change what
would help life you know be better for
people experiencing these
taboos um
you um I want us well to be honest I'm
kind of stealing your point um but like
I think I really resonated what you were
saying about not judging people who
don't necessarily know what the like
quote unquote correct thing is to say
and I want to go beyond that that and
say that I think we need to just sus
suspend judgment period or at least try
to when we're having these difficult
conversations I'm going to use body siiz
bias as an example there are so many
conversations that are happening right
now around uh medication that people are
using to resist the weight loss um like
a zic right that's the most popular one
um or the most like prevalent one people
are talking about and I think it's
totally fine for you to have your own
like opinions and perspectives
but just realize that there are
definitely people in your life who you
know very well not so well you work with
who are considering right or thinking
about you know um potentially like
looking into you know that sort of thing
or they have are having experiences
which you know are meaning that they are
facing prejudices or you know they have
a relationship to the topic right and we
need to be really really careful
therefore about how we talk about these
things to make sure we're not excluding
people who may need our support right
and may need us to be a safe space for
them and as much as possible I you know
you're entitled to your opinion but what
I always say is that like you know this
is kind of maybe my position but at the
same time I believe that everybody who
is um you know as part of this
conversation deserves empathy care and
compassion and especially those that I
care about right cuz I know people in my
personal life who have come to me and
been like you know I don't tell anybody
in our Wider Circle but I know that you
know you won't judge me and like I'm
thinking about doing this or I'm going
through that right um and having that
Lifeline is just so so important so that
that person doesn't feel like they don't
have anything to turn to and then um
they go down a rabbit hole and then kind
of their issues get worse yeah I think
to I think really at the moment we're
kind of encouraged to be One Polarized
opinion or the other but bring back
being on the fence you know just like
talking about holding two different
thoughts in your head we can all do it
we can all do it um okay and then I know
that you wanted to share a little bit
around
information and where we're getting our
information from and I feel like this is
such an important point to bring up now
especially when we're talking about
these yes definitely um I think it's
also just yeah really really important
to make sure that um we're being very
critical about you know our
sources um and that we are not uh I
guess like letting uh we're quite a
questioning our biases right um and
being self-critical about where the
information we're getting it's kind of
coming from what it's informed by as
well um especially on social media like
so many of these conversations are so
polarizing right intentionally so that's
what feeds the algorithm so let's try
our best to be critical um but also
let's try our best to um be continually
staying informed um I'm definitely a
proponent of that um and that's why I
make the content that I do uh because I
believe that education is a journey we
all should be continually self-educating
and um knowledge is power right um and
with knowledge and with the power that
knowledge provides
um we can make a a real huge difference
right um just even by being able to have
a to have these conversations right
increasing capacity to talk definitely
and I know well think talking about
social media I know that yansy was going
to reflect a little bit about the recent
news around kind of taking away
moderation from yeah Mets taking away
their moderation services and things
like that and it's such an interesting
point because you know there's spaces
online where Community has been found
and and that's really helpful for taboos
to find people talk about and if there
aren't any in your current Circle you
can find them somewhere
else how do we feel about this Louise I
know that there's something you wanted
to talk about in terms of this like lack
of change in moderation on social media
and how that can be a problem yeah I
mean I think it's really coming back to
the point about recognizing there's a
lot of misinformation out there and
there's a lot of sources out there that
might functionally help us my Educators
but how do they make us feel um and um
in the context of parenting issues
there's some really kind of good
resources out there that I can be
confident or well informed and support
me but
then they give me a picture of what is
aspirational or achievable and what I
should be doing and the emotional impact
of that isn't that helpful even though
the functionally the information is and
it was only speaking to one of my
therapists that um I realized that
actually some of these resources I need
to manage quite carefully and she said
to me this is making you feel really
guilty this is not maybe you need to
sort put this stuff to one side so
recognizing there's misinformation out
there and there's going to be more and
then recognizing the emotional impact of
the content that we are consuming as as
best we can and figuring out through
that how to moderate our consumption if
we need to and or how to search from
more diverse sources and and informed
perspectives and perspectives to your
point flow that kind of come down in the
middle there is so much polarization out
there and it's just getting worse isn't
it um sensationalized headlines um
perspectives on one end or the other and
that's kind of all that clickbaity stuff
in the media um so we need to figure out
our way through all of that yeah and and
not kind of fighting your own team as it
were I know Benji recently you had
something kind of in line with what
Louise was talking
about almost Council culture happening
on yeah I um I basically had I did a
video where I was talking about um what
we considered to be too smelly to eat in
the workplace quote unquote is informed
by cultural biases right um and I use an
example of like you know you might be
like oh you're like your serious to
smelly but if I was to cook like you
know a ton of bacon You' like oo nice
and it's
like um and right and I was and I
basically and I was basically like you
know it's not necessarily about the fact
that like um it should be a free-for all
in the office or in work places but
let's just be considerate and kind of
you know how we potentially might be
like excluding other people right with
our judgments on like food smells um and
I had a few comments from people saying
that I was being ableist um because they
have sensory needs which means that they
can't um be around s smells and I was
being exclusionary of of of you know of
their lived experience um and I I sat
with that um I'll be so transparent and
say that like when I get criticisms like
that um it does bruise my ego a bit
because of what I do do you know what I
mean and what I stand for right I'm like
oh my gosh um and I'm just being honest
like I'm a human being um but I sat with
it and I reflected and I was
like no I'm right I'm correct um and not
only am I correct I think it's really
important for me to do a follow up where
I assert that um and you and you know
why because I really feel like it it
goes against the interests of inclusion
and Equity if people feel that they can
Center their own LIF experience to the
point where they're being exclusion of
other people the post that I made was
not exclusionary I was just making a
point right you could have maybe been
like oh hey by the way I have this
experience um and so we need to
accommodate that also right but to like
silence what I said you to use your
lived experience silence what I said
it's like not okay and so yeah I did
another post you know in response um and
I think really people really appreciated
that I stood my ground on that um in a
way that was it wasn't you know it
wasn't dismissive it was just kind of
asserting their point and kind of an
interest of inclusion so I still like to
say I think it's really important that
like and I think that quote is in the
report like to make a change to make a
difference son you have to be disruptive
I always say I'm not a nice person I'm a
kind person period right um I'm
abrasive um I'm loud look at these
trousers no I'm shy um but sometimes you
you need to be and in all seriousness in
terms of you know talking about tackling
taboos right sometimes you need to you
stick your neck out a bit right to make
a change it is scary though it is so
much easier said than done to say look
we all know that it's uncomfortable to
talk about this but actually the
discomfort is feeding this taboo making
it worse and worse and worse but it's so
much easier said than done just to say
go and talk about it so I don't know it
is something that we need to to do and
especially if you're a person who's
coming from a place where you aren't
going to face the same penalty for
talking about things that others might
it's even more important for you to be
talking about these things 100% And like
privilege using your privilege is so
huge if you have um if you know aspect
of your identity or background which
means that you don't necessarily face um
you know a certain issue right other
people are facing that is an opportunity
right for you to use that extra comfort
that affords you right that space that
affords you to say something right and
and face like less risk for doing so
right less repercussions so definitely
do that but also what you mentioned
about it being easier than done 100% but
you know what helps knowing you're not
alone right when I hit like send on that
post I was pring it I can't lie like I I
mean you know I said what I said so
period right I was always going to stand
by it but a part of me was like oh gosh
I'm going to face backlash um and every
every like of every comment every share
every DM that I got from people from
people who follow me and stuff being
like thank you so much I felt more
emboldened I felt more empowered and we
can recreate that feeling amongst
ourselves right Community Support is so
huge it's so massive and it's a solution
to the problems that we are facing in
society today right um it's so much
easier to fix these things when we are
standing together that sounds so corny
but it's true it's true it is and it's
like go back to the point of a stat that
we had in our report six in 10 people
are experiencing these taboos and that's
just four
subjects yeah yeah and I just think they
we're so quick to just building what
Benji was saying we're so quick to kind
of apply our own experience and our
perspective to the content that we see
on social media and sort of and troll
people and say negative things and just
kind of put ourselves into what what
they're saying and what they've
experienced so as soon as we need to
check our privilege and check our own
position and the biases that we're
bringing I also think in all of this
there's room for a bit humor sometimes
and just sort of humor can really help
cut through some you know many taboos in
all sorts of different ways and
sometimes we just we're so quick to
judge that we don't take humor and
light-hearted content for what it is we
just want to kind of find a way to make
a point absolutely and we have something
in our kind of like how to talk about
taboos that is we welcome human not to
laugh off things not to use it to escape
the conversation but to yeah to bring
and Sophia's methodology in bringing joy
to these subjects is so important and I
hope that we do that in our events and
when we talk about things we don't want
it to feel heavy and and dark so yeah
totally I think maybe it's time for a
Q&A if there are any what do we think
cat swap with me and I'll see if anybody
has any questions but first thank you so
much to all the amazing
panelists all right we we've got a
question back here okay I'm
coming oh thank you Mike um firstly
thank you so much this has been super
interesting it's the first time I've
been to one of these events um my name's
Emma and um this is maybe like quite a
hard question to answer and a bit of a
sweeping question but it's what I was
thinking about I think as I was
listening to you all talk um and it's
about kind of I guess balancing
protecting people who have um
experienced some of these difficult
subjects that we're talking about I'm
especially thinking about child sexual
abuse while also like opening up the
conversation and and and kind of um
broadening the discussion like we've all
all been talking about um it made me
think of like two two recent things um
myself and my colleague here are working
with Rape Crisis at the moment and we we
literally had a session today where um
someone who works in one of their local
centers shared with us that they um kind
of very quietly brand their service like
they almost hide The Branding of their
service um so that people feel
comfortable to walk through the door and
so that people members of the community
almost don't know it's there um and it
also made me think of an example that I
heard about in the press this week about
um Scotland legalizing um safe use drug
rooms um which also are being kind of
hidden in communities so that you know
people who live down the road don't know
they're there so I guess my question is
like how do we balance kind of
protecting and
safeguarding um people with while also
opening up the conversation and reducing
the kind of taboos around some of these
subject
matters thanks Emma um great great
question and I think one that we've come
across a lot in in our work on Tab and
developing services for taboos I think
that one of the key things is that it's
really important and it's in one of our
um how to talk about too's principle is
the right to respect people's privacy
and that while these topics are taboo um
we shouldn't be expecting people who are
living with the taboos to be having to
feel exposed in accessing services or to
feel vulnerable um in in finding that
that support um so I think that's
absolutely there are lots of spaces
where taboo services are being provided
in a respectable way that um gives
people dignity and gives them a safe
space to um to to find the right support
for them um I think also in in the the
conversations particularly around
something like um child child sexual
abuse it's important not to expect
anyone to share more than they feel
comfortable with the purpose of becoming
better at talking about taboos is not so
that we can all spend loads of time
going into personal details and talking
about these topics it's about the
empathy and non-judgment um around them
I do think that and one of the things
that one of the experts um spoke to
about around um some of the challenges
around um privacy and services not not
necessarily in the topics your talking
about um but this was particularly
related to um products related to anal
Health um were that if there's not much
conversation and people are buying
products they could very well be
treating the wrong problem um or not
getting the health care that they need
because there becomes a service or a
product that feeds off the toness of the
pro the product so I think it's a really
fine line between never expecting anyone
who has experienced a taboo to have to
relive that or to not have access to a
safe and taboo informed and Trauma
informed space but also over time making
sure that we are all the healthc Care
Professionals that people um working in
offices in communities that we are all
better at having these conversations so
that we can provide the space for people
to explore and understand their
experiences yeah I just think to build
on that quickly um many tabos will have
specific considerations around the kinds
of ways that we might best navigate
discussions around them but the reason
we exist is because we can learn from
principles around talking about any
given taboo and apply that to many
others so the more we can equip
ourselves to have uncomfortable
conversations to get more comfortable
with those the better any of us can
navigate being the recipient of a
conversation about something very very
difficult like child sex abuse without
even necessarily always having to be
going about going around and talk about
that issue it's about equipping
ourselves to have conversations about
difficult topics like that and applying
general principles around non-judgment
empathy compassion kindness
better do you want to
try to to more sensitively respond
whatever comes up
got another question yeah hi um I'm Tama
she her um also I apologize in advance
if this is like lightly incoherent if I
had a lot more time to think of how to
phrase this it would probably be better
um but I've had like five
minutes so I was thinking and like I
guess my thoughts kind of kept coming
around um to this throughout the
conversations um about how Central the
the feelings like the raw emotions of
fear and shame are to the existence of
tabos um and the perpetuation of tabos
um and how you know to a certain extent
and this is by the way not a roast on
all of us in the room but to a certain
extent we're all preaching to the choir
here right because the type of person
who would come to this kind of event is
the type of person who's you know at
least somewhat at home with the feeling
of discomfort and and working through
the feeling of fear working through the
feeling of Shame and being really
willing to sit with that and be
reflexive um so kind of
when we're talking about you know
breaking down taboos the kind of Crux of
the issue lies with the people who
aren't doing that and who don't want to
do that um or who would have you know so
much difficulty with that um so I'm
wondering kind of what your thoughts are
on that because I think that there's so
much there's so many reasons right why
someone might not want to be confronting
tabos maybe because it doesn't feel safe
for them you know normativity is safe
and and kind of pushing against that can
feel very scary or very you know maybe
they'd have to kind of confront their
own feelings of Shame about certain
things maybe there's cultural norms as
you as you had kind of alluded to
earlier there so there's a billion
reasons why people might not be kind of
willing to engage with this but when
we're talking about the perpetuation of
Tabo kind of that's that's one of the
big hurdles right um so yeah I just
wanted to kind of get your thoughts on
you know how how does this Outreach go
further right than the circle of people
who are already wanting to talk about
these things
thank you oh sorry I was just going to
say your your point is probably similar
to what Louise's point last year she
made that it's something that we talk
about all the time because you say as
you say everybody who comes is coming
because yeah they're up for it so how do
we make it go further and it's something
we think about all the time so thank you
for prompting it
again um yeah um I'll be quick but um I
think for me it's about modeling
vulnerability and I think that all of us
in this room can you know go off and
become yeah role models of vulnerability
right because things when you are
vulnerable you allow people the
opportunity to then feel like they can
be vulnerable too and you sp about shame
and you know the opposite of Shame is is
pride right um and so if you the best
way to kind of drown out shame is to try
and encourage people to be proud more
proud and you can start yourself right
so if you are comfortable with talking
about taboo topics whether it's these
ones or other ones you know obviously
being sensitive to who's around you and
you know make sure it's save space and
you know you'll be considerate but try
your best to be proactive about how you
talk about these things right and show
that not only you're comfortable having
such conversations but also you are very
comfortable engaging with other people's
you know experiences with these topics
right um and so that's what I would say
I would say like be a role model of
vulnerability yeah I would also
challenge ourselves to think about
whether or not we are always talking as
much as we we may be behind um and fully
bought into it um but I share one
experience from one of last year's
taboos um and one from this year's um I
we've just been doing a project um with
B bab on bowel taboos um and one of our
taboos from last years was unruly bowels
and I have ulcerative colitis and I
realized this week like oh I've been
having a really tough time for the last
month and I've not told anyone who I'm
working with that I'm struggling and
we're doing a project on it and we're
looking at conversation like trying to
encourage people to have conversations
about their poo and oh oh I've forgotten
to do it so like it is it is possible to
do it and the same um with suicidal
thoughts of this was for a number of
years ago years ago met a friend who was
struggling um with uh back pain
struggling with uh
sleeplessness um struggling with with
childhood trauma and lots of things that
made her more vulnerable and I didn't
ask and I do think that and I've seen
that more recently with a similar thing
around Suicidal
Thoughts I think I think that even those
of us we definitely do need to go
further we do need to get braver in
having these conversations
but I would also challenge all of us to
think about how much we are talking
about these in our day-to-day life and
when we're still holding back because I
think we're making we are making
progress and a lot of us bought into it
but there's still conversations that
we're not
having we have one over here thank
you um hello first of all thank you so
much it's just been super interesting um
my name is Amanda I'm a social
researcher and campaign strategist and a
lot of the work I do is in like narra
change so I was um really interested
listening to you about and thinking
about you know the title talking to
booze around how much of this is um
about encouraging kind of small group
and individual interaction versus um and
I'm sure you've probably thought about
this but you know the the power of um
like storytelling and cultural
narratives to kind of seed some of this
change that we're looking for in kind of
bringing some of these taboos into the
light and you know thinking particularly
about how these ideas and taboos are
dealt with in uh popular culture and the
media and music TV film you know
particularly and you know I think it's
really interesting when you see not only
how an individual tells their story but
how other people react or don't react to
it and how sometimes that can also
enable taboo to be brought into the
light you know sometimes thinking about
how um what was I I was watching like a
sitcom the other day where you know all
of the gay characters in the uh cast
while that was once considered a Taboo
it's not now anymore in society
considered to Taboo and they talked
about the make of that show and how they
wanted none of the characters in that
world to re actually react to anyone's
sexuality so yeah I wondered like how
much of your i' I'm excited to see the
report and I wondered how much of that
is going to kind of talk about how we
can kind of scale up I guess yeah the
the impact of these
insights um I think it's I think it's
all of that um I think there's a real
power in that narrative change those
bigger picture kind of pieces that help
us shift how we talk about and think
about taboos but it's also the little
everyday things just as catw is
describing and the Ripple effects of
those and I go back to that point that
Flo was making about um somebody who
felt kind of shut down from talking
about suicide because they said what was
deemed to be the wrong thing think about
what could have happened if they had
felt empowered and comfort to keep
talking about it think about the impact
of not talking about it little things
like from one interaction um you you
lose that opportunity for a ripple
effect so I think it's the little
day-to-day things and how they scale up
and how they kind of stretch um from
those of us who are here and most
comfortable with that fear and shame and
stigma um and cascading that out towards
those who are least comfortable but I
think it's also about those kind of yeah
bigger picture kind of shifts and more
cohesive kind of gear change through
narrative
change yeah changeing narrative is huge
something I always talk about and this
is like a Shad experience for many many
uh queer people but um I remember like
watching TV with my parents and there be
like a a gay kiss and my mom would leave
the room you know or my dad would go on
like a rant about you know how all gays
are going to hell and then I'd be sat
there like oh gosh right um even before
I even knew that I was gay but I knew I
was different right um and I had this
Instinct that oh gosh like you know I
wasn't really truly loved by my parents
right um but then fast forward um I was
uh I was at a an evening event um and I
may have had a few wines uh and someone
came up to me in the bathroom and they
were like oh are you Benji from social
media and I was like yeah yeah I am and
they were like oh my gosh like you have
made me be feel so proud to be black and
and gay and I that literally touched me
I was crying in the bathroom maybe it
was the wine maybe it
wasn't but like I I say that to say that
I think having positive representation
and positive narratives is so so
important and um we really indicate how
we feel about things in really subtle
ways that we don't necessarily think
about you know so how you react to um
celebrities right and stories in the
press and how you talk about them people
are listening right um how you talk
about reality TV and the stories that
happen on there like you know who who
you think is the villain who you think
is the hero of the story right all these
things are kind of kind of be informed
by biases we need be checking ourselves
right what were you putting out there is
it affirming and oppressive narrative or
is it challenging the status
quo all right any more
questions raise your hand don't be shy
we've got one back
here hi um one thing I was thinking
about is um how taboos sometimes kind of
arise because people just like genuinely
don't care um or just aren't interested
sometimes they arise because people are
people have like such good intentions
that they're scared if someone brings up
to them they're scared to like say the
wrong thing so they might just change
the subject which is equally hurtful but
um as sort of saying the wrong thing or
even maybe more hurtful than than
changing the topic sorry than than
saying the wrong thing but um one thing
as like like to hear you guys reflect on
is how
um how like it feels to be on both sides
of that conversation things for people
to sort of keep in mind um things for
people to sort of like try to yeah like
to to keep in mind on both sides of that
conversation
basically I think I think one thing to
remind people of and we' we we see it in
the date that we have in the report of
just how many people are affected and so
I think often um some of these topics
are dismissed as being quite Niche or
quite small kind of and that's used as a
powerful way to kind of say oh it's not
that important I learn about it because
it's not it's not that big and actually
when we look at the intersectionality of
taboos and the experiences there is a
real there's a there's a big hidden part
of taboos and so equipping ourselves and
understanding it better um is is more
important because people that we know
and care about are affected by these
even if if we don't know um and I think
that there are there's the as you say
the difference between not caring so how
do we make sure that someone does does
care or not knowing and that's the the
self-education piece as
well not I'm not sure what to add to
that it's really
good yeah we've got some back
here we've got a I've got one right
here hello oh hi my name is cloudia um
I'm a psychotherapist so I'm very
interested in most of the uh subjects
and I work very closely with a lot of
them I've been working the past 15 years
with gender-based uh violence survivors
so uh but my point is i i i i r a bit
late so I'm not sure if you've spoken
about it the beginning but I was just
curious to know what's going to happen
with this support in the sense of it's
really important to have those
conversations I think more than anything
uh the importance of breaking taboos is
also creating uh Community around to
speak because taboos isolate and what we
need to break isolation is actually to
create community so I was just curious
if this report gets somehow sent to any
you know uh uh place or any that would
actually uh motivate or create the
conversations or the the even education
right schools hospitals all those points
that you mentioned the doctors need to
be more aware of those issues and so on
yeah thank you it it's a it's a great
point and I think that um something that
we as a small charity and as a charity
that focuses on different taboos each
year one of the key things that we do
with this report is we then run an event
around each of those taboos in which we
bring together different perspectives
and we go into each Taboo in much more
depth we bring bring to life um
experiences expertise um we are also
trying to get more kind of coverage of
the report this year and trying to get
it more kind of publicized and and out
there so that people are aware of the
work that we're doing um and then also
through the work that we do either as
talking to Boos or as common Collective
which is the um trading arm of talking
to Boos and we work on projects um we're
trying to to kind of find ways of
partnering with other organizations that
are working um in these spaces so um we
have done projects on um Suicide
Prevention we're doing project at the
moment um with um bab um so we tried to
kind of like further our work through
those places we would love to have more
opportunity for influence for more kind
of championing and working um with um
communities to make sure that survivors
also have their experiences heard um
we're still quite a small charity um so
hopefully um but come to our events um
next year in in this year this year with
the events um and be part of those
conversations because I think those
events are much more kind of open and
deep dive discussions into the
particular taboos um so this is really
just the beginning of the work this year
but just to add like we're open to
suggestions as a as a small Char to
limit our resources there's so much more
that we could do than we're able to do
at the moment but very open to any
connections ideas creative thoughts that
you have around how we might expand our
reach as we deep dive into each of these
tabos another question here um yeah hi
um been to all your events they're great
thanks um I was just wondering if
there's anything in the report around
like a gender split and talking about
things and whether like some genders
find it more uh difficult than others
cuz looking around the room like don't
want to assume anyone's gender or
anything but um seems to be like quite
you know unbalanced so I was just
wondering if like that's something
that's come up
yeah so I think there definitely were
some differences in gender in the in the
data um and certainly around um say too
like body bias but I think it would be I
think one of the things that we really
want to work on as a charity is make
sure that these um conversations aren't
exclusive to to to particular agendas
and also that we don't um apply
assumptions or stereotypes to taboos as
to who is affected um for example with
the the Suicidal Thoughts um there are
different barriers and different
experiences that that that different
genders May face um around it but in
terms of experience of those thoughts
it's actually there's there's it's
experienced AC cross genders um so I
think that they definitely there there
may well be more of an openness towards
kind of having the conversations the
more kind of like interest in terms of
attend attending these types of events
um but I would I I think of often the
kind of balance across genders in terms
of um experience of the taboos is is
defin definitely
there um and just to kind of second that
I think that is really what
intersectionality is actually about it's
not necessarily about you know pitting
different experiences against each other
right or saying one is worse or it's
just that it's just different right so
um when we're thinking about section of
um you know science suicid of thoughts
and you know um women right there are
certain barriers and certain experiences
certain issues it's a specific
conversation right when we're talking
about the section of you know that
experience and and being a man there are
certain issues and certain experience
and like we're not saying I don't think
it's helpful to be like one is more
important than the other or like we
should focus on one of the other
necessarily right um it's about
understanding that actually those are
very specific conversations that that
kind of need to happen equally
and I think one of the organizations
that we spoke to in feeding into the
report was an organization called future
men of which yansy who couldn't be here
this evening um but is a a trustee as as
well and I think that there are it is
important to take into account those
factors in in it but as as Benji says
it's it's about making space for not
assuming or not not kind of perpetuating
stereotypes around particular um topics
and I think it is a particular thing
that the media loves to do
generalizations or be very kind of like
focused on particular um presentations
of of these taboos and I think when when
you look at at at experiences it can be
much much broader and much more diverse
than we think sry just a final little
bit on that just a bug bear of mine I
hate the fact that like in the media um
a lot of people only talk about men's
mental health when it's in response to
women talking about their mental health
well mental issues that going going
through it's such a b bug bear of mine
cuz it does such a disservice right to
the issues that you know men do go
through when it comes to mental health
and well-being so yeah it shouldn't be a
tip for
T thank you for all your amazing
questions so far I think we've got time
for one more if there was anybody who
had got one right back here hello thank
you very much for a fascinating
conversation this evening uh I'm also a
researcher and over the years have
researched gender based violence and and
spoken to survivors many times about
bringing to life their
experiences but I've also conducted a
lot of research with perpetrators of
sexual violence including um in prisons
with people convicted of sexual violence
um people who have contacted helplines
such as stop it now who are concerned
about their sexual interest in children
so I guess my perhaps very challenging
sort of question at the end is think
about do we have limits to our empathy
because these people the perpetrators
are also people and are often very
vulnerable people and we like to kind of
paint the drivers of pain the drivers of
these these situations as monsters but
like they're not they're humans who also
may be experiencing some of these issues
um they often are say very vulnerable
they're someone's son or daughter so I
think the the kind of the question I say
is how much can we push ourselves into
these tabos and have kind of empathy for
people on that side of the spectrum
where like they're actually perpetrating
some of these situations um I think we
should personally have empathy but as a
society do we do we feel there's kind of
limit to empathy where there's almost a
conditionality based on people's
behaviors or or do we need to make sure
there are no limits to that empathy and
how we really see people as as people
whatever they've they've actually
done I do I'm just wondering if there's
something in your book um that kind of
might provide an angle on that thinking
about kindness and
the best I can sort of think of as a
response to that brilliant question is I
I go back across a lot of this to the
fact that to many difficult topics we
come with a set of assumptions that
people who do difficult things who do
unpleasant things who do things that are
outside of the norm of socially
acceptable behavior are bad and we don't
think about the backstories that they
have the experiences that they have have
now in or in the past the the issues
that they're dealing with and and that
limits our scope for empathy because to
your point people who perpetrate some
terrible crimes
um why have they got there well they've
probably got there because they've had
very complex and difficult upbringing
and set of
circumstances um so I'm not sure this
answers your question but I think there
is something around pausing and
recognizing that we don't know people's
Back stories we don't know what's going
on inside their minds we don't know the
circumstances that have brought them to
where they are and having just some
sense sense check around
that yeah um so my book hope this helps
how to be kind to yourself and others um
might help you uh with this topic but um
yeah do you know what I'm going to use
like an anergy off top of my head right
it's it's kind of a bit like um who seen
Wicked we seen Wicked yeah um loved it
give synthia rivo all the things all the
things um but that whole story is about
like our people is anyone born but evil
right and we delve into the backstory of
the wicked witch and you know and the
whole idea is that you know she was
conditioned to be that way right um and
that movie is amazing and the story is
amazing but contextually we are ready to
receive that story because we've heard
about Dorothy right we know the story of
Dorothy right there's been so many
iterations of that movie and um everyone
knows her her her about her lived
experience and what she went through in
NX YZ and I'm saying that to say I think
it's really important to recognize that
everyone as a human being we all
products of how we were raised and
things that we've been through and that
means that ultimately we can be be put
in a position where we do harm others
right um either unint ition Al or
intentionally because you know we just
you know that's just kind of where we're
at at that point right and it's really
important that we see the humanity in
each and every one of us it's really
important that we try our best to do so
but there is also a time and place for
that you know um it it's not in every
situation that we need to be seeing both
sides right we need to be really
sensitive in how and when we do that
right TR I use that example it's like we
are now ready to learn about alphab
story because we've already known about
D's story so there's balance there
another example I'll give is that like
you know if I've experien if I've
experienced a microaggression in the
workplace and a racist one um you know
the person who did that might not have
meant it and they may be really upset
and sorry about it but you know the inst
the first reaction shouldn't be to be
like oh you know did Janet mean it the
first reaction should be is Benji okay
right and after I'm okay oh then we we
humanize Janet we think about how you
know what's her Learning Journey from
you know from then on so I think time
and place is really important yeah I I
think that I think absolutely right and
I think that the similar to your point
about kind of pitting narratives against
each other of we need to create safe
spaces for conversations about taboos
that are um that have a real focus and
it's one of the things that we've we've
found a lot in in our work is that
finding finding the right Focus for a
taboo that we are working on making
space for that making space for people
with lived experience of that to share
their experiences there certainly are
taboos that are related to harmful
behaviors um that may well come up in in
in future years I think for the for the
taboo that we're talking about this year
it's very much focused on Surviving
child sexual abuse and it's for from the
taboo that we're focusing on is more
about um the services and support for
survivors of of child sexual abuse but I
totally take on board your point and the
the need for us to understand and be
more aware of these taboos as a society
so that we can be more preventative and
more proactive in the support so that
less people face harm that's caused by
the Tabo so there's there are taboos um
in on in multiple ways related to that
but for for this year we're we're
focusing on um the experience of
surviving child sexual
abuse well I just want to say thank
sorry I'm in the wrong side of the room
um I just wanted to say thank you so
much to all your questions they're
really really interesting and always
give us such great food for thought
about how we can learn and grow but I
also want to say thank you so much to
our amazing panel who've answered all of
those with such Amazing Grace and
insight and talked through all of these
uh difficult topics so round of applause
please and I'd love to invite you to
carry on the conversation input your
taboos that you want to be uh the report
next year and come to our events and
something else I've forgotten cat I was
just going to say so the report will be
online it is online it is online amazing
so Flo has amazing to have done that
while we've been here this evening um so
please go and read the report it's got
lots of information data resources um in
there and she sadly wasn't able to be
here this evening she's done her back in
um but Amanda who's our amazing um
designer and has made I mean we are we
are so lucky to have her work on this um
on on the report and more broadly with
the charity she's just incredible so um
please dive in and read the beautiful
and uh rich in content report absolutely
and thank you all for coming thank you
Related Songs