– English Lyrics

Lyrics & Translation

[English]

KAMALA HARRIS: Listen, relationships are complicated.

[LAUGHS]

JON STEWART: That's why I don't have them.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well-- JON STEWART: That's why--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, well, so let

me explain something to you, Jon, about relationships.

[LAUGHS]

JON STEWART: My advice is this, lone wolf, baby.

It's lone wolf.

It's introversion.

And you keep to yourself.

[THEME MUSIC]

JON STEWART: Hello, everybody.

My name's Jon Stewart.

I host The Weekly Show Podcast with Jon Stewart.

How convenient.

It is Wednesday, October 29.

Tomorrow is Thursday, October 30.

That's probably where you're gonna be hearing this stuff.

We got a nice guest for you today.

She ran for president just recently.

Yeah, that's right.

Vice President Kamala Harris is gonna be joining us later.

And we'll be talking about all kinds of different things.

And I'm assuming we can only conduct

the conversation because the--

the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump

is overseas, where he really seems to enjoy it much more

than being here.

I really think the problem that he has with America is,

we don't throw him enough parades with cultural music.

I think if we just, no matter where he goes,

have a red carpet at the ready, and people playing the music

of countries he's never actually been to, dressed

in cultural garb, and then we just give him gifts,

I think this is the way we can get through these next

three years.

Every day is Christmas in Malaysia.

That's what we have to make America.

The shit that they are giving him,

I don't know who is running through the gift list there,

but when-- when the new Japanese prime minister

gave him a gold golf ball, I was

like, that's just-- nailed it.

That was-- when they came up with that idea,

they were tossing things around.

What should we give him?

How about a new cryptocurrency?

No, he's already in the billions in the--

Well, put his name on something here.

No.

Gold golf ball, to combine--

it's the Reese's peanut butter cup of gifts you

could give to Donald Trump.

It's a golf ball walking by--

a gold-- I don't know what.

Something gold.

I probably should have had that more at the ready.

Yeah, that was a good one.

But beyond that, let's get to our golden golf

ball for our audience.

This is the segue of the century, for God's sakes.

Let's just get to it.

[THEME MUSIC]

Folks, we're delighted.

Today we are joined by the former Vice President

of these United States of America,

who has just written a book, called 107 Days,

about the campaign for president in 2024 Please

welcome Vice President Kamala Harris.

Madam Vice President--

KAMALA HARRIS: Hi, Jon. JON STEWART: Hello.

KAMALA HARRIS: How are you?

JON STEWART: How-- how am I?

How are you.

KAMALA HARRIS: I'm good, you know, all things considered.

And there is a lot to consider.

JON STEWART: Yes.

How is the tour?

You conceived of the book.

Was this sort of a way for you to memorialize the run?

Did you view it as a postmortem?

What was-- what was kinda the impetus behind,

you know, recording this and putting it down?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

Well, there were a number of reasons.

One-- listen, it's part of America's history.

And it's gonna be written about.

And it was important to me to make sure

that my voice is present in the way those hundred

and seven days are-- are talked about and-- and written about.

And--

But, I mean, there are other reasons.

It was-- it was an election that

is unprecedented in American history,

in recent American history.

But you had-- we had a-- a sitting president who was

running for reelection, and 3 and 1/2

months out from the election, decides not to run.

The sitting vice president takes up the mantle

against a former president who had

been running for 10 years, with a hundred and seven days to go.

JON STEWART: You sound like you're pitching

this to NBC Universal as a--

imagine this, Jessica Chastain is the vice president.

KAMALA HARRIS: But I mean--

but think about it.

JON STEWART: Yeah, it's crazy.

KAMALA HARRIS: But it is. It is.

And I wrote the book like a journal.

It's like a journal, so specific days

and what it was like.

And I think more than anything, the-- the utility of the book,

I hope, is to really lift up the hood on how this all works.

I think that there's so much about,

obviously, who becomes president of the United States

that impacts all of us and people around the globe.

But the process by which it occurs is really quite opaque.

And I think this is part of what is a problem, this--

in this moment, which is, there's just

a lack of transparency around how

these systems work, how government works,

how politics works.

And-- and so I do believe that there

is part of that aspect of the book, that is meaningful.

JON STEWART: And what-- because that, to me, is fascinating

because I think it's also--

I agree with you/ Learning about that process,

for me in the book, was wild.

What parts of that process do you

think Americans most either misunderstand or should

understand, you know, that helps people understand better

how candidates are chosen, how candidates are managed,

how candidates become elected?

KAMALA HARRIS: I think part of it

is that there are a lot of variables that

go into the whole process that are not

obvious to the American people, whether it is

about a consideration of a candidate's strength

or viability based on their ability to fund raise,

who is gonna support them?

Where is that support gonna come from?

I think there is a huge aspect of the modern campaign, that

is about profound and vast amounts of mis

and disinformation, and how does a campaign

actually address that?

Especially if the process by doing it is at this point

arcane, which is that we have not updated the process to be

in the 21st century, and understand how social media

and technology can influence the mis

and disinformation that has a huge

impact on where voters start.

And then you wanna go through a process of talking to voters.

I mean, Jon, part of the--

I think what's wrong is this assumption

and the language that talks about

low-information voters, that--

voters aren't low information.

They are filled with information.

JON STEWART: Too much information voters?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, not too much information.

But don't start with the assumption

that you're working with a blank slate, right?

People have information.

And to the extent that they have been targeted with

or are receiving mis and disinformation,

the-- the challenge is not just so-called educating the voter,

but actually, first, being aware of whatever it is

that they've been hearing, and then figuring out

how you are going to have that conversation

to challenge the assumptions that people are coming with.

And-- and I say that to everybody.

I-- I was-- been talking recently, during the book tour,

about, you know, the assumptions

that we are making about the people

who voted differently than us.

And we-- we should challenge some of those assumptions,

meaning that we have-- we have assumed that someone who votes

differently than us may have a different

set of morals or values or--

or principles that are important to them.

But let's first step back and ask the question,

are we working with the same information?

Right?

And I purposely say "information"

cause fact is fact.

2 plus 2 is 4.

But are we working with the same information?

Because I think we are finding this environment

that we aren't always working with the same information.

And so the conclusion that we draw

is not based on the same set of facts.

And that's part of what is the challenge of this environment.

JON STEWART: Does that then relate a campaign to sort

of a process of education?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, but first being educated about--

JON STEWART: Educated yourself?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, about what we think people are working

with in terms of information.

For example, here's part of why I say that I think it's arcane.

So I have knocked on a lot of doors

in campaigning for myself and other people.

And in a nutshell--

I'll oversimplify it, but in a nutshell, here's what we do.

We send-- we call them canvassers, door knockers.

We send them out with a clipboard and a piece of paper.

And it says, OK, on a scale of 1 to 5,

find out how Mrs. Smith feels about candidate Jon Stewart.

And then you record, OK, really hot on Jon Stewart,

don't like him at all, ambivalent.

And so you take that information back

to headquarters.

And then two weeks before the election, if they were anywhere

from open to the idea of Jon Stewart

to love Jon Stewart, right--

[LAUGHTER]

--you say, hey, Mrs. Smith, election is next Tuesday.

And this is your polling place, instead of sending them out

to knock on Mrs. Smith's door, and when she starts talking

about, you know, I heard this thing

about Jon Stewart on my Facebook group on,

you know, fly fishing or my knitting group,

and I heard this thing about it,

and asking, what exactly-- what's the name of the group?

What exactly did you hear?

[LAUGHTER]

And listening, listening to that voter, that person--

JON STEWART: Oh, no.

KAMALA HARRIS: They heard all kinds of things, you know?

I mean, the fly fishing community, they're kind of--

JON STEWART: I know.

They're-- they're very against me right now.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, they're not sure about you.

Right?

JON STEWART: Yeah.

A river does not run through it when it comes to Jon

Stewart, that's for sure.

KAMALA HARRIS: But taking that information back--

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --and listen--

and seriously listening to accumulate the information

and data about where people are because if we are assuming

that we know everything they know based on the fact that we

only watch CNN and MSNBC--

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --we're screwed.

JON STEWART: So here's where I would imagine, cause what's

interesting to me is, you're sort of saying

that the processes by which we elect a candidate

are now outdated.

And so if the processes by which--

KAMALA HARRIS: A lot of them are.

JON STEWART: Right, so that we won't know.

Yet, you know, when I think back to Cambridge Analytica

scandals or the way that data is used,

I'm assuming that campaigns know more about the voters

that they're targeting, that--

that the idea that canvassing would be the manner by which

campaigns would learn about voters

seems quaint to me cause I assume,

like it is in-- in television, we know more about the consumer

or the viewer or the voter than we've ever known in the history

of knowing things, and that canvassing

is always gonna be kind of a blunt instrument,

I would think.

KAMALA HARRIS: Right, and one would argue outdated,

to be frank, with people having, you know,

their Nest and their-- all the cameras, if they see somebody

coming with a clipboard, they're probably

not even answering the door.

So to your point, I agree with you.

But-- but fundamentally, yes, it is knowable, to your

point, right?

And in particular in the private sector

and certainly, corporations, have

huge and complex systems to understand

where, to your point, the consumer is.

What are their likes, dislikes? Right?

What language works for them?

JON STEWART: And the government probably has the most of that,

doesn't it?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, but again, we're talking about campaigns.

We're not talking about the government.

We're not talking about corporations.

And part of what we need to do--

and I'll speak for the Democratic Party on be--

that in my experience as the Democratic nominee, part

of what we've gotta do is upgrade

our systems of knowing where the voter and where people are.

And that is about having mechanisms that

allow us to yes, collect and analyze data correctly,

but also to challenge ourselves.

Are we listening to everyone?

For example, in my book tour, the-- the assumption

was, I'm gonna go to New York, LA, DC, and Chicago.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: I said very clearly--

and so we have done this--

I'm going down South in addition to those places.

So I have-- I said, I wanna go to Durham,

which is where we went.

I wanna go to Birmingham.

Jon, do you know in the first 24 hours of announcing the book

tour, Birmingham sold out in the first 24 hours

so that we had two shows in Birmingham?

JON STEWART: Great.

KAMALA HARRIS: I'm going to Nashville, of course, Atlanta.

Right?

And so part of it is--

JON STEWART: You sound like a comic now, you know?

This schedule sounds like my schedule.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, but let's go where the people are.

Right?

And again, I think underlying a lot of my concern

is, is let's challenge our assumptions

about where people are, what they're thinking,

what they know.

JON STEWART: Are the people that are gonna come to see you,

in Birmingham or Durham or LA or New York--

I mean, I understand the regional differences and things

along that matter, but in the same way of canvassing,

are you really learning about them in a real way,

embedding yourself?

Or is it kind of a prescribed experience

that each experience is the same?

Knowing what it's like to travel--

and I can't imagine what it's like for you, but you are,

I would assume, insulated from the reality of those

experiences unless you go out of your way

to design something--

KAMALA HARRIS: Right.

JON STEWART: --but outside of the people

that would come to see you?

KAMALA HARRIS: So I have been doing that.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: I've not been doing it with the press,

but when I've been visiting these various cities--

and I've not been--

I have not made it--

I guess this is the first time I'm actually

talking about it publicly. JON STEWART: What the hell?

Are we breaking? What?

Hey!

Hold on!

Extry, extry.

KAMALA HARRIS: But I have been.

I have been.

And so bringing people together, in particular people

under 40, under the age of 40, bringing people together,

a cross-section of people, a cross-section of race

and obviously, geographic location, background,

educational level, and literally listening to them--

like, I ask one question, how you doing?

And then the rest of that time, one to two hours at least,

is listening.

And it's-- you know, for me, I'll speak for myself,

I need to--

I want to do that more because people have a lot to say.

And when you give them a safe place to do it,

where it is OK to disagree, where

it is OK to talk about your fears and your hopes

without judgment, people have a lot to say.

[BASS MUSIC]

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Yeah, put your-- are you listening?

Are you in your car?

Pull over.

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[THEME MUSIC]

JON STEWART: Have you been surprised

by-- by what they're saying?

Has it been revelatory to you?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, some of it has.

I mean, first of all, number-one issue for everybody

is the cost of living, number-one issue.

I actually believe that when we think about the election

in '24, we should understand that there are, I think,

a significant number of people who

voted for the guy who is in the White

House based on one belief.

JON STEWART: I haven't finished the book.

Don't tell me who wins.

I don't wanna know the ending.

[LAUGHTER]

KAMALA HARRIS: It's a thriller.

It's a political thriller.

JON STEWART: All right.

KAMALA HARRIS: But based-- they believed

him when he said he was gonna bring down prices on day one.

And of course, he lied.

You know, inflation is up.

Unemployment is up.

The cost of food is up.

But one of the things that I'm hearing

is that number-one concern, especially for people

under the age of 40, is the cost of not only groceries,

but housing, a real concern about the future of work

in terms of technology.

And-- and another thing I'm hearing, in particular

from parents of younger children

and high-school age children is the impact

of social media on their kids and their mental health.

And then for every parent or anyone who's parenting a child,

affordable child care is a huge, huge issue.

I mean that-- I campaigned on that issue.

I believe probably that and then what I intended to do,

which is have Medicare cover home health care for people,

especially in the sandwich generation, who

are raising young children and taking care of their parents,

it's a huge issue.

JON STEWART: Is any of that, like--

is any of that markedly different from what

you would imagine?

I mean, I would imagine what you're laying out,

in some respects, is what you would

have been laying out in 2020 when

you guys were running and--

and kind of as you went along in terms of-- of governing is--

it doesn't sound like any of those things

are markedly different from what

you would have been hearing from people for-- for a while.

KAMALA HARRIS: Here's what I would

have done differently in terms of our administration on this.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: I think we--

so what we did on infrastructure, what we did

with the CHIPS Act, incredibly important in terms of job

creation, in terms of making the United States

the-- the manufacturer for the world

on this important commodity, chips.

But I would have sequenced our priorities differently.

I think we should have started with the care economy.

I think we should have started with our agenda

around affordable child care, which would have been

at 7% of someone's income, extension of the child tax

credit, which reduced child poverty by half in America,

paid leave--

JON STEWART: During the pandemic,

you were talking about?

KAMALA HARRIS: We talked about during the pandemic,

but it-- we-- but the-- the--

the effect of it as a priority would

have been, if we had sequenced it differently, that it would

have been beyond the pandemic.

It would have been permanent.

And I think we should have done that first.

I think we have to address the needs, the current needs,

the existential--

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --threats to--

to people getting through the week, much less the month.

JON STEWART: All right, here we go.

So now-- now we're getting into the meat.

Here we go.

Folks,

Get out your-- your knife and fork.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, but I wanna do that.

But here's the other thing I wanna do cause it's connected.

I-- just one other thing in terms of what I'm hearing--

JON STEWART: Please.

KAMALA HARRIS: --and the subtext

to a lot of what I'm hearing, we have

a huge trust issue in America.

It is what has existed, including highlighted during

the pandemic, which is the trust or distrust or mistrust

that the people have in their government and in its systems,

many of which failed the people during the pandemic,

but also-- and we're not talking enough about this--

the distrust that exists between the American people,

of each other.

And I'm not talking about just, you know,

can I leave my door unlocked at night?

I'm talking about a--

can I trust that you are not a threat to my very existence?

And I think this is a very real issue in our country right now.

And we have to deal with it.

We have to deal with it.

And it cuts a lot of ways, you know?

JON STEWART: Well, I think a lot of that is probably related

to-- you know, if you look at social media

and the incentive structure of it,

it's designed for hostility and anger.

And if that's the main driving force of communication between

people, you know, I think it's probably pretty clear that it

catastrophizes, generally, so that everybody finds

themselves in a constant state of lather

because that's how it's--

the algorithm is designed to do that to you.

KAMALA HARRIS: And it's designed--

it's-- you know, we talked about it in-- you know,

I'm gonna like--

Psychology 101 in college. But--

JON STEWART: Bring it.

KAMALA HARRIS: --the id, the id, right?

It is--

JON STEWART: Our deepest desires, animal, primitive.

KAMALA HARRIS: And what is most primitive, that is--

part of-- the reason for the-- this--

you know, the life of the species, human species,

is to instill fear, which then creates fight or flight.

Right?

And what can create fear more than,

you believe you are being attacked?

You believe that your very existence is

the subject of another's ire.

And this is-- this is happen--

And so your-- your point, I agree,

was the-- the algorithms around social media are--

are designed to-- to make--

JON STEWART: It fosters.

KAMALA HARRIS: --feel something.

But it's designed to make people feel something--

JON STEWART: Right, right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --not just think, but feel something.

And one of the most primitive, to your point,

feelings that we have, that cause-- that translates

into action, right?

Because that is the-- that is the point.

That is the point.

What-- what feeling translates into action?

JON STEWART: And by the way, in-- in political terms,

both sides are quite adept at weaponizing

those feelings and creating you know, he is a--

Trump is an existential threat to this,

Kamala is an existential threat to this.

And it does create that.

I don't know that politics has never not done that.

I think generally, that's the idea, to portray your opponent.

But social media certainly amplifies it to an extent

that most people's brains have not yet

figured out a way to filter.

Would that be fair?

KAMALA HARRIS: That is part of what, you know, as we say,

is the-- that allows for the clicks, right?

There's this whole, what do they call it?

The attention capital, right?

And-- and so if you wanna market your product,

if you want people to stay on your site,

whether you are an influencer or a corporation,

you want people to keep--

to feel something continuously.

And-- and again, that's about tapping into people's-- you

know, their--

their deepest feelings.

They call it the attention economy.

Right?

JON STEWART: And it weaponizes and incentivize it.

So-- but I want to get back to-- because I

think what you said about trust, for me,

is the crux of this issue.

So much of what the postmortem for this election

was, and I think in the book as well, A, time, you know,

you expressing a desire for more time, and other things

that had to do with the lying that Trump did,

the unorthodox methods of campaigning that he did.

The elephant in the room was the record of the Democrats.

Democrats, I don't know, have reconciled

with what may be the primary factor, at least in my mind,

which is a dissatisfaction amongst the people

that government was being responsive to the needs

of the people that it purports to represent.

It was a-- a level of dissatisfaction

with that, that-- and you got to it a little bit

with-- you know, I maybe would have

reversed a couple of things.

But I wonder, is-- is competence

the antidote to fascism?

KAMALA HARRIS: That's interesting.

JON STEWART: You know, are the Democrats

reconciling with the dissatisfaction

that people perceive with government's performance rating

as it relates to their lives?

KAMALA HARRIS: So I agree with you

that one of the biggest problems that we have right

now, and to your point, gets back to the trust issue, is,

do the people believe that government is

actually meeting their needs?

Do the people believe that government is even

responsive to their fears and their dreams,

even if it falls--

even if it falls short, right?

JON STEWART: And the Democrats are the party that believe.

And so they have a special responsibility here.

They're the party that believes government

has a role to play in improving the conditions of their lives.

The Republicans are selling a product they don't believe in.

KAMALA HARRIS: Right.

JON STEWART: But Democrats aren't.

So how does that square?

KAMALA HARRIS: We need to do better.

I mean, this is-- [LAUGHTER]

JON STEWART: I guess-- KAMALA HARRIS: But we do.

Well, we do.

I mean, we need to--

And it gets back to, again, you know, we--

dealing with the highest-priority issues

and addressing them.

Now, Democrats do address this.

And we can-- we can only get so far without the support

of-- of the willing and reasonable on the other side,

right, to get some of these things passed.

But you look at, for example, the battle

that's happening right now in terms of the shutdown.

Democrats are standing firm.

And I applaud the Democrats in DC for standing firm on saying,

we're not gonna compromise on the access

to affordable health care for the American people.

So it is about standing firm on our values and principles.

And then to your point, we gotta execute on it

and actually deliver.

And-- and we're gonna have to do a better job because we are

dealing with a reality which is that, look, in '24, one

third of the voters voted for him, one third voted for us,

and one third didn't vote.

And I think a big part of our focus

needs to be on that one third that didn't vote.

And why didn't they vote?

That's part of why I'm going around

and actually just sitting down and-- and letting people talk.

Why didn't they vote?

And I think a--

a undercurrent there is because I

don't believe that when I participate,

I get anything out of it.

JON STEWART: And is that-- you know, let's-- you

brought up the shutdown. I think that's a great example.

So Democrats are in a position now where

they are shutting things down so that subsidies for the ACA

can be extended because insurance premiums are--

are driving it.

KAMALA HARRIS: And will skyrocket.

JON STEWART: Will skyrocket.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: But to the point of the Democrats approach,

I guess what I'm driving at is, are the reforms that Democrats

are talking about not enough to-- are they basically

tinkering at the edges of a system that is inherently

corrupt and not delivering, as opposed

to rethinking that system so that it delivers more directly?

So let's talk about the ACA.

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: Basically, it's a conservative fix to a health

care system that is an outlier in the civilized--

in the civilized world. KAMALA HARRIS: Right.

Right.

JON STEWART: It gives people a coupon that allows them, maybe,

entrance into this circus that is our--

our health system.

So now Democrats are fighting to keep

the cost of that coupon--

KAMALA HARRIS: Right.

JON STEWART: --slightly less.

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: So are you now trapped

in a program that ultimately wasn't the fix that we wanted

it to be, to a system that inherently won't function well

because of externalities in a straight, capitalist,

supply-and-demand way?

Does that make sense?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I think so.

[LAUGHTER]

JON STEWART: As I was talking, I was like, does it make sense?

I'm not sure. I just made sense.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, what makes sense is that we still have

work to do to make America's health system deliver for all

the people, and not be a function of how much money you

have in your back pocket.

Right?

And Democrats do come from that place, of believing that health

care should be a right, and not just a privilege of those

who can afford it.

So how do you get there?

Well, part of how you get there immediately on this issue

of where we are with the shutdown

is to hold firm, as they are doing.

Part of it has to be to continue to reform the system.

The Affordable Care Act was a--

a significant reform for its time.

But there is more work to be done, which includes,

for example, the affordability of prescription medication.

We pushed for a $35 cap on insulin,

which had a huge impact on so many people.

We wanted to do it, not-- we did it for seniors.

We wanted to do it for everyone.

We couldn't get the support of Republicans in Congress.

Right?

JON STEWART: But again, so it speaks to incremental change.

I guess my point is--

KAMALA HARRIS: Which is never satisfying.

JON STEWART: That's right.

KAMALA HARRIS: It's never satisfying to say,

we've got to be incremental.

And-- and I'm not advocating incrementalism,

but until we win back majorities

in the Senate and the House and the White--

take the White House, that may just be where we are.

And it's not where we should be.

And it should not satisfy us, that we

have-- we have accomplished incremental change.

We should be completely pissed off about that.

[THEME MUSIC]

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[THEME MUSIC]

JON STEWART: Do you think that the Democratic establishment

would agree with that?

KAMALA HARRIS: I don't know who the establishment

is at this point.

JON STEWART: Right.

Oh, God.

That's a whole different problem, isn't it?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, isn't it?

JON STEWART: Wouldn't you be considered

as the flag bearer for the Democratic run for presidency?

I would assume that you're at least in that--

in the conversation as the establishment leader

of-- of the Democratic Party.

I would say you're probably the most well known.

And, you know, probably Bernie is

the establishment leader of kind of the progressive wing

of that Party.

But, you know, I would imagine that your leadership

in that area would be significant.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, I agree.

And part of the work that we have

to do for the Democratic Party, going forward,

is really come to terms with, what are we fighting for?

And not just what we're fighting against.

I think part of the problem with where we are now--

call it establishment or something else, whatever

label we want to put on it--

is-- my fear is that we cannot be a party that is so--

So almost myopically focused on the guy that's currently

in the White House that we are not paying attention to one,

how we got here, which is that this is about a pattern that

was decades in the making, but two, understanding that where

we are right now, there is a whole apparatus around support

for this guy and what he's doing.

And it is part of an agenda that--

I mean, they-- they published it in-- with Project 2025.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: That thing didn't come out of thin air.

It's a product of a lot of folks,

including Heritage Foundation and-- and the

Federalist Society.

And so part of how Democrats should be thinking

about leadership and getting through this moment

is, yes, fighting what's wrong, doing

like what we're doing to fight against redistricting.

But also, we've gotta understand that we cannot just

be focused on Donald Trump.

We need to not only be against something,

but also, we need to be understanding of how we got

here, and that it's a bigger apparatus,

and not just the one guy.

But the second point that is equally important,

which we're not emphasizing, is what we stand for.

Right?

And so not just fighting-- it's about anti-Trump, anti-Trump,

but it is about health care.

It is about affordable housing.

It is about what we need to do around child care

because, you know, people gotta know

what you stand for so that they're clear about what

they're fighting for.

JON STEWART: And that's-- you know, the issue,

sometimes that I have with the Democratic Party is,

there's certainly a high-minded kind of rhetoric around what

they stand for because I've heard that,

you know, health is a right.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: And everyone deserves a chance.

And it's-- it's generally framed as a moral argument.

And so the rhetoric is somewhat audacious,

you know, locked into that-- that sense of purpose and being

and what we should be.

But the governance is generally, as we

talked about, more timid.

It's the audacity of hope and the timidity

of what the Republicans will allow us to do.

And I think what's frustrating for--

and I can only speak for myself on this--

is the dance that we end up doing.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: Cause I look at health as, is it a right?

I don't know.

But it's certainly a commodity.

And it's one that the market has failed on.

And if government isn't, at its purpose,

there to help with outcomes that the market fails on--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, absolutely right.

I agree with you.

I totally agree with you.

I totally agree with you on that, which is, we are--

we are so mired in process, especially people who have been

in the system for a while, that we are--

we are almost blind or we place a secondary importance

on the progress piece--

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --because we get mired in the process piece.

Look, here's part of how I think about this moment.

Things may get worse before they

get better, under this guy.

OK?

And we, at the end of this, are gonna be looking

at a whole lot of debris.

And they are-- they are breaking things.

And there is a moment, then of how we should be thinking

about this, a moment for which we

should be also thinking about where the opportunity will be.

And part of the opportunity, I believe,

will be in transforming some of these systems that were broken

before, that were failing us before, and not--

and that we cannot afford to be nostalgic about

trying to recreate something that

actually wasn't even working-- JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --before this guy got there.

And that's where there's gonna have

to be a moment of clarity around honest conversations

about the failures of the system, with an acknowledgment,

also of the importance and the strength of those systems,

like a-- that the fact that government should maintain

its principal responsibilities around public health, public

education, and public safety.

But on all three counts, one could argue, yeah,

kinda good job, but kinda not.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: So let's also--

and this is how-- part of how I've been thinking

is that we've gotta also have as part of our capacity

to leapfrog beyond this moment and think about when we get

back some leverage around the House, the Senate and the White

House, how are we going to transform systems

to make them better, with an acknowledgment of what

wasn't working?

JON STEWART: So in the reflection of that, you

know, having--

having been a part of the system,

not so much as a prosecutor and a district

attorney and attorney general, but as a senator--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yep.

JON STEWART: --as a vice president--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: --as a candidate for president--

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: --in all those different roles-- so you--

you were in those roles for, I think a good decade,

I would say, probably more, right?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, sure, about a decade.

Yeah.

JON STEWART: The hundred and seven days

wasn't maybe enough time for you to consider

that being in that crucible.

But certainly, your experience in that past decade

and in the year since the election,

with a little bit more time to reflect,

what is it, fundamentally, about the system

that you think we've gotten wrong?

KAMALA HARRIS: I think what we've--

fundamentally, what we've gotten wrong

is we have mired progress in processes that

are outdated and are not--

JON STEWART: A bureaucratic system?

KAMALA HARRIS: But a-- yes.

And so, yes, and we can label it the bureaucracy.

But more specifically, we have not

grounded our measure of effectiveness based on metrics.

We don't-- we don't do-- we-- we think if we're just working

hard and we're moving and that wheel is moving,

then all is good instead of, you know, frankly,

adopting an approach more aligned with, I think, what--

the private sector, how, you know,

it thinks in terms of asking, ROI, what is

the return on the investment?

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: What are the metrics?

Giving ourselves timelines and--

and deadlines to actually implement

a good plan but also--

and this may sound contradictory--

giving ourselves enough room to actually come up

with a good idea that can work, so not

rewarding a bunch of grand gestures

that actually are meaningless in terms of the ability

for implementation. JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: You understand my point, right?

JON STEWART: Yeah. KAMALA HARRIS: Like, not--

I don't think any good public policy ends

with an exclamation point.

It just-- I--

JON STEWART: Jeb!

[LAUGHTER]

KAMALA HARRIS: --but also then, putting-- giving ourselves

and holding ourselves accountable for speed

around implementation.

JON STEWART: So talk me through rural broadband.

Rural broadband, we had a ton of money that was earmarked

for it through the government.

It's certainly a very worthwhile project.

It's bringing areas that don't have accessibility

to the information systems that they will

need to progress economically, and all those different things.

The government comes up with, during Biden

administration, a rural broadband investment plan.

Billions of dollars are spent.

No rural broadband is delivered.

How do you change that program?

Because I think the fundamental thing I'm getting at here is,

taxpayers don't feel like they get any value--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: --that government has divorced money from value.

And that problem, fundamentally has to be fixed.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: So rural broadband being the specific example--

KAMALA HARRIS: I think it's a a great example.

JON STEWART: --how do you redo that?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, part of it is, one, a critical examina--

part of it is this.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: When you're coming up with the good idea,

at the very same time that you're thinking

about the good idea, there should be an equal amount

of attention being given to, how's the thing gonna

be implemented?

Instead of everyone sitting around clinking their glasses,

oh, success, success because we got the thing passed, right?

In terms of whether it's a bill or whatever it is,

that executive order, whatever it that

is necessary to actually proclaim the idea.

JON STEWART: But is it in the desi-- so you got an idea.

We need to get rural broadband out

to areas that don't have it.

So is it the committees that design the bill?

Is it the lobbyists that influence the bill?

KAMALA HARRIS: I think it's-- it's everyone.

JON STEWART: It's the whole system is not working directly?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, it's not as focused on implementation.

Right?

So if-- if you're focused on it--

this is where we're gonna get very micro, but I'm good with--

JON STEWART: Get it, baby.

Yeah!

KAMALA HARRIS: So let's think about, OK, so we have

a plan for rural broadband.

But it's gonna have to go through all

these administrative processes once the plan has

been agreed on.

It's-- this is the-- this is part of the challenge,

frankly, of a democracy.

But we need to do better.

We need more efficiency in our democracy

because here's how democracy works.

You come up with the idea and the plan,

and then everyone says, OK, plan has been made.

Now let's debate the plan.

[LAUGHS]

Right?

And so what ends up happening is, we start then challenging

the implementation of the plan around the bureaucracy,

around agencies, and how long it takes

for them to do their review--

JON STEWART: And there are 90-day periods and 120-day

periods and on and on.

KAMALA HARRIS: And it needs to be shortened.

And it can be shortened.

And here's the other piece of this that I think is gonna be,

maybe controversial, but here you go.

AI can help us with a lot of that.

For example, reviewing-- reviewing permits,

there's-- it literally is about looking at numbers and figuring

out, what are the patterns to figure out,

is this thing possible?

So there is a piece of this that is about government

adopting technology, not around making policy decisions,

but certainly about assisting us with this kind of the--

the part of the process that's about just

checking the numbers, checking the patterns.

So there is that piece of it.

JON STEWART: In terms of where the need is?

Or what-- what patterns of--

KAMALA HARRIS: In terms of the patterns

that exist around, if you input this many dollars

and we expect this output, is it--

does that math actually work?

It's about math.

It's not about policy.

It's literally about math.

Permitting, ask anybody who's trying to get a permit.

It's about math.

The rules are already set around,

this is the number of things you can have.

This is the size.

This is the width, all of these things.

But permitting to build new housing takes forever--

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --because a bunch of people

have to OK all these forms.

JON STEWART: Isn't it in some ways, though,

that the Democrats are certainly

more enamored of, you know, if you're gonna fix one

problem that--

that fix also has to address every other problem.

In other words, if you're gonna put in rural broadband

or you're gonna put in housing, it also has to fix climate,

it also has to fix environment.

It also has to fix fair employment,

you know, all of those things together.

You know, there are lobbyists on the business side

that insert things into laws that advantage them.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, that is true.

That is absolutely true.

JON STEWART: But there are certainly

things on the Democratic side that are inserted

that disadvantage efficiency.

KAMALA HARRIS: I don't--

here's what I would say about this.

We cannot ever overlook impact, OK.

And that's part of what-- what would be the impact

on a rural community?

What would be the impact on children?

What would be the impact on the environment?

We should always ask those questions.

Those are smart questions to ask.

But we do need to also just address efficiency.

OK, I'll give you an example of something,

when I was vice president, I was focused on, the issue

of maternal mortality.

And when I started looking at the details of it,

I realized that states had the ability to expand Medicaid

coverage for postpartum care, and that all

of the states except three had not expanded it from 2 months

to 12 months.

And I then, basically sha--

issued a-- a challenge and, you know, was kind of,

you know, shaming people, like, hey, why aren't you doing it?

By the time I left as vice president,

47 states had done it.

And it was just a matter of just,

like, hey, you can do this thing.

Why haven't you done it?

It will-- it will improve the quality of life and

life itself.

These kinds of things are also part of how I think of--

how leaders have to think about increasing efficiencies

in the system, which is about creative thought

as opposed to well, it's never been done before.

Not many people are doing it.

There must be a reason they're not doing it.

Let's just let it be.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: We have to challenge the system.

So that is about an ethos.

JON STEWART: How much of a tear down is this process?

You know, now, to bring it to the East Wing,

how much of a-- of a demo--

KAMALA HARRIS: Huh.

JON STEWART: --in your mind, needs to be done?

After experiencing the frustrations of-- of some

of this, in terms of wanting to get things done,

how much of a demo project would you take to that process?

Do you watch how Trump--

forget about what he's doing, the way he's doing it.

Is there a part of you that thinks there are lessons

to be learned from that?

KAMALA HARRIS: I believe it's important we not conflate

disruption with destruction.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: And I--

I agree that disruption has a very important role to play,

which is basically, as far as I define it,

it's as much as anything about challenging the assumptions,

challenging the status quo, all right?

I can tell you from my lived experience as a public servant,

challenging the status quo is brutal.

You know, there is an assumption

that status quo is static, that it is just-- it is there.

Let me tell you something.

You start challenging status quo,

you will find it is quite dynamic.

And it will fight against change every step of the way.

I know because I have tried and I have--

I've had successes, but I also have the bruises to show it.

And so listen, disruption is important,

but destruction for the sake of some grand gesture,

look what I can do quickly, overnight,

and just get rid of a thing without any plan for actually,

what's it gonna--

why?

And what is it gonna actually do to improve people's lives?

And not to mention, I mean, are you fucking kidding me?

This guy wants to create a ballroom for his rich friends

while completely turning a blind eye to the fact

that-- that babies are gonna starve when the SNAP benefits

end in just hours from now?

Come on.

So what-- I'm not gonna be distracted by, oh,

does the guy have a big fucking hammer?

What about those babies?

JON STEWART: Right.

And I guess the point is, if--

if you're-- and I feel your-- obviously, your anger on it.

How do we convince the Democrats that the system needs

to be disrupted enough so that a person that's

gonna build a ballroom to the disadvantage of people

on SNAP--

and we're conflating.

It's obviously not the same money, but you're looking at,

you know, obviously the--

the vision of it.

KAMALA HARRIS: But Jon, let's talk about $20 billion

going to Argentina.

JON STEWART: To Argentina, right.

KAMALA HARRIS: And it costs $8 billion

to keep SNAP going for poor children.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: Come on.

And taxpayer dollars, by the way.

JON STEWART: Right.

When I think about, like, your campaign,

right, have-- have we lost sight

that the old rules don't apply?

You've got a great thing in there I think David Plouffe

said to you at some point.

He said, you gotta nail four things.

You gotta nail the rollout.

You gotta nail your debate.

You gotta nail your convention speech.

And you gotta nail--

I think there was one other thing,

might have been your VP or-- KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: So-- but by all measures,

you nailed every one of those.

You just did.

That convention speech, the debate,

the rollout, the enthusiasm, you

literally changed the dynamic in people's minds

so that they--

felt that surge of possibility and excitement and joy.

You nailed all of those status-quo conventional--

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: --mileposts that they

would put out for a candidate to be successful.

And it wasn't.

And does-- is that consultant, status quo,

establishment complex also part of-- when you talk about

the status quo fighting back--

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: --it's not just coming from outside the house.

It's coming from inside the house.

And-- and aren't we ready for the kind of disruption that

re-imagines this so that we don't find ourselves

in this situation again?

Because it's so hard to get any sense of people taking

responsibility for that.

KAMALA HARRIS: There are real shortcomings and flaws

in how we're doing politics right now

and how we're running campaigns.

I give you that.

I-- when we look at 2024, at least when

we look at those hundred and seven days,

I think we have to distinguish that

between what was leading up to those hundred and seven days.

Right?

I do believe one of the biggest factors that was at play

in the hundred and seven days, we

just didn't have enough time.

We didn't have enough time.

JON STEWART: Or was it too much time?

I mean, if you had done the election after 60 days,

I think you win, honestly.

There was a-- there seemed like a stagnation point.

And then if you look at the lines, it doesn't look like--

what would have changed?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well--

JON STEWART: Yeah.

KAMALA HARRIS: But there's so many variables that

went into the outcome of that race

because you can also look at where you started

to see an infusion of resources going

into mis and disinformation.

I talk about, for example, the Elon Musk factor in the book.

You can look at that there were certain inflection points that

had an impact on the race.

And to your point, it was, as David Plouffe said,

it was those-- those traditional inflection points,

and there were others.

So I don't want to reduce what we need to do, going forward,

to any one factor around what we could have done better, what

I could have done better in those hundred and seven days,

what was happening before.

I think there are a multitude of factors that all need to be

addressed, including, again, in particular,

the prevalence of mis and disinformation

and our need to do better around data

collection and analysis.

JON STEWART: How do you feel about--

so if I-- and boy, this is gonna be a really broad sort

of sentiment-- but, you know, when you took over

and the way that the crowds were responding,

and that sense of possibility and that

hope, and there was this real feeling of hey,

man, the momentum has shifted, we're in this game again,

and all that.

But as the campaign moved on, misinformation,

disinformation and all those things which existed--

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: --did it mean that you were then--

that the shift went from the emotion of the change

to once again, the defending of the status quo,

that the real kind of foundational problem

is, once it moved into you having to defend

this kind of status quo that people were dissatisfied with,

would more time have changed that if that's

the fundamentals?

KAMALA HARRIS: So I don't want to relitigate the campaign--

JON STEWART: Sure.

KAMALA HARRIS: --per se, but I will

say that part of what our challenge was, was we needed

to-- you know, like, people in marketing

will say that people need to hear things

about three times before they've

actually-- it-- it settles in.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: And for example, our policy around Medicare

covering home health care, we know, and the data has shown

us, it was incredibly popular with a lot

of people, regardless of how they've registered to vote.

But we needed more time for more people to hear it.

We needed more time for people to hear the point

that I was making about price gouging,

and that we were gonna go after,

for example, price gouging.

We were gonna go after corporate landlords who

have been buying large amounts of property

and jacking up rents.

And it just required more time.

But again, there were a multitude

of factors that contributed to the outcome

of the-- of the election.

And I think all of them have to be taken into account.

JON STEWART: And the difficulty of that with-- when

you talked about earlier--

the trust factor feels eroded between people

and their government.

So even when you present certain things,

if the trust isn't there, that's probably a more

difficult sell at that point.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, right because for example,

on that, you can have someone who says, Kamala,

I agree with you, and I love that plan,

and I believe that you--

you understand it.

I mean, I-- look, my Medicare covering home health care

was born out of my personal experience,

taking care of my mother when she was dying of cancer.

But there is that, and then to your point on the trust

of government and systems, that person saying, so I

believe this is all genuine.

I know it is, but can it be implemented?

Right?

Can it actually happen?

When will it happen in a way that impacts me?

And that gets back, again, to this issue that we

have to address, and it is--

it's gonna take some real deep work-- which is around

restoring trust in these systems and in government

to actually do what we say it can do and will do.

And that's work.

JON STEWART: Did your feelings of affection and loyalty

to the president affect your ability

to make that case as maybe-- you know, as robustly as--

as you wanted to make it for fear

that it-- it would be seen as upsetting

to him or any of those?

Or did that not factor in?

KAMALA HARRIS: No, I mean, you know,

I actually write about it extensively

in the book about my feelings for the president.

I-- I care about him deeply.

And I did not want to pile on with all the criticism

that he was facing.

I didn't think it was necessary, I--

for me to-- to weigh on already what was so much.

And I-- and I do realize, also in reflection, that I--

I did not fully understand how big of an issue

it was for some people, for me to distinguish myself from him.

I felt that the distinction between he and I

was pretty clear.

And-- and that was--

I think that was something that was a real issue.

And-- But, you know, I--

knowing what I-- I knew now, I would have,

you know, probably approached it a bit differently.

JON STEWART: And I don't mean that in the personal sense of--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --not ready.

I meant it more in the sense of the policies that he wanted

to implement or the way that they were implemented

or the governance obstacles more than the

competence conversation.

KAMALA HARRIS: Oh, I'm not talking about competence.

Yeah, no, I'm not talking about competence at all.

No, I believe he was fully competent to serve.

JON STEWART: Do you really?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I do.

JON STEWART: That surprises me, actually.

KAMALA HARRIS: No, I-- I do.

But there's a distinction to be made

between running for president and being president.

JON STEWART: What's the distinction?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, being a candidate for President

of the United States is about being in a marathon

at a sprinter's pace, having tomatoes thrown

at you every step you take.

JON STEWART: That sounds lovely.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, it's--

it's more than a notion.

JON STEWART: Get involved in public service,

ladies and gentlemen.

KAMALA HARRIS: And to be the seated president,

the sitting president, while doing that, it's a lot.

It's a lot.

JON STEWART: Yeah, it's--

I think it's a hard case to make for people that he didn't

have the stamina to run, but he had the stamina

to govern cause I think most people view the presidency

as a marathon runner to sprint with tomatoes

being thrown at you in terms of-- of governance.

So I think that-- drawing that distinction.

And again, I recognize the incredibly difficult place

you are in with that, with personal relationships

and-- you know, I've been surprised at how much

people talk about loyalty.

And it's funny.

In the book, you know, it creeps in every now and again

cause it'll be like, I love Joe, I'm loyal to Joe,

he's the best.

But you know, he gave that 11-minute speech.

And it wasn't until 10 minutes in that

he said anything about me.

Like, it's hard, I guess.

You're still people.

It's hard to get the personal feelings of rejection or upset

or loyalty out of this.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, that's why I

put it in the book, 'cause I--

as people have commented, I am very candid in the book.

And it was a complicated relationship.

And yeah, he did, he disappointed me.

Yes, he disappointed me.

JON STEWART: And it was clear, I think they felt like you

had disappointed them.

Like, that-- that was so wild about it.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: It's tough.

But do you-- do you have that relationship still?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, we do.

In fact, it was my birthday last week.

And he called for my birthday.

We had a really great conversation.

And we plan on seeing each other.

I mean, like I said, it's complicated.

I-- I care a great deal about Joe Biden.

And I know he cares about me.

And that's not gonna change.

JON STEWART: Right.

And maybe some distance helps kind

of be reparative in that way?

KAMALA HARRIS: Listen, relationships are complicated.

[LAUGHTER]

JON STEWART: That's why I don't have them.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well-- JON STEWART: That's why--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, well, so let

me explain something to you, Jon, about relationships.

[LAUGHS]

JON STEWART: My advice is this, lone wolf, baby.

It's lone wolf.

It's introversion.

And you keep to yourself.

These people are-- what about with Pete Buttigieg?

You know, I imagine he had some feelings about, you know,

the vice presidential selection.

KAMALA HARRIS: I have nothing but praise for Pete.

JON STEWART: Yeah.

Has-- have you guys talked about that part of it?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I called him.

And listen, I-- just listen.

I put out facts in the book and with, as much as anything,

an intention to create a permission

structure for these difficult conversations

to happen among all of us.

And I do believe that the conversations have been

happening, probably in some small way,

because I put it in the book.

JON STEWART: No, no, no, I understand.

Do you think-- because it's the kind of candor

that I appreciate, very much so.

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: And I think it's the kind of candor

that, if conducted more publicly,

could help improve the trust that people have,

cause I think it's things that people feel like, that

must be going on, that must be the conversation

behind the scenes.

KAMALA HARRIS: Right.

JON STEWART: And if they were to see that more publicly,

maybe they would feel like, oh, all right, this person--

this-- this feels more real to me.

KAMALA HARRIS: And-- and hopefully,

then asking of ourselves and as a voter,

would it have mattered to me?

Would it have made a difference?

Cause that's part of what I--

I hope to invite, which is a level of introspection

on behalf of all of us.

Right?

I mean, Jon, for example, for example--

JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah.

KAMALA HARRIS: --if I had made different choices

and the outcome were still the same

and I were doing this interview,

would you have said, why did you do that?

JON STEWART: No, it's a good question.

I don't know.

Why did you do that in terms of being more--

so candid, I guess.

KAMALA HARRIS: Making-- or making certain decisions

in the campaign, where there was, perhaps a risk

factor associated with it.

JON STEWART: You know what?

That's probably my prejudice, too, is then,

I filter the things that I look at, that I would-- you know,

I liken it to being a sports fan,

you know, being the-- the armchair quarterback,

like, what are you doing, calling a run?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: I think I probably filter those decisions

through the prejudices I have about what's

wrong with the system.

And so I use that as evidence, you know, that I'm right,

that here's why the system doesn't work.

And-- and it's like, I guess you

can build your case from all kinds of different directions.

KAMALA HARRIS: You know, one of the things that you're raising

that I think is very present, distrust

can quickly lead to cynicism.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: And that's part of what

we need to deal with, right?

I mean, including, like, even some people--

not recently cause No Kings Day this last week

was such a success.

But people have asked me, why do you think more people

aren't taking to the streets?

People have asked me, you know, these kinds of questions.

And part of the response has been that there are

a fair number of people that are like,

this system is just broken.

It's never gonna work.

It doesn't work.

And why should I participate or have any expectation

of it being different?

And, you know, a lot of people don't

want to have that awful experience

of being disappointed.

And one way to avoid disappointment

is to not have an expectation of something that fails you,

and therefore disappoints you.

JON STEWART: That's-- that's interesting.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, the cynicism piece is something

that I think is acquired from a learned experience

of-- of learning that something was not worthy of their trust.

JON STEWART: Right.

I think that's-- that's correct.

I will say-- and boy, is this a narrow focus group--

my experience right now is, the level of thirst that people

have for an alternative for leadership

is as high as I think I've ever experienced it.

And-- and while cynicism is certainly, you know--

KAMALA HARRIS: Present.

JON STEWART: --the exhaust-- the exhaust that

can come out of the manifest--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: --I also think the potential

for idealism and for change and for excitement--

and I would say--

when people say, why aren't more people in the street,

I would say cause they're not sure why they're there yet.

Right now they're just there as sort of an amorphous, listen,

we're a constitutional republic, you know,

and a democracy, and-- and this feels like an alien skin graft

to our culture. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: But I do think, as you move more

towards a national midterms or things like that,

or if the opportunity being for a leader--

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm.

JON STEWART: Hello, Madam Vice President--

to-- to address with specificity that new way,

forcefully, it's there.

It's there to be taken, I guess is-- is my--

you spoke of it earlier.

What an unbelievable opportunity.

And if we really do want to be a big tent, you've gotta show,

if Liz Cheney can be in the party,

Mamdani can be in the party, too.

KAMALA HARRIS: Oh, for sure.

JON STEWART: And there's gotta be--

KAMALA HARRIS: Sure, of course.

JON STEWART: --that-- that drive.

KAMALA HARRIS: Of course.

Of course.

JON STEWART: Is that the plan now for you,

is-- like, cause right now they wanna know who the leader is.

They wanna know what to follow.

They wanna know what this all means.

And I don't think they're getting it.

KAMALA HARRIS: I think-- you know, I've--

I've started calling it our savior complex.

And I think we shouldn't--

[LAUGHTER]

JON STEWART: Man, guilty as charged.

KAMALA HARRIS: I know. Don't do it.

JON STEWART: You are-- KAMALA HARRIS: Don't do it.

JON STEWART: --dead right.

KAMALA HARRIS: Don't do it. JON STEWART: It's hard, man.

KAMALA HARRIS: Waiting for the Messiah.

Don't do it.

We have so many stars in our Party.

There are so many stars.

And-- and let's not be afraid of them.

You know, you talk about Mamdani.

I mean, he's exciting, this group

of people who otherwise don't think

of themselves as being aligned or part

or even seen by the system.

You just look at the range of what-- we have so many--

Jasmine Crockett, who I just talked to recently--

I mean, we have so many stars.

And-- and if we're gonna spend full time

in these circular conversations about,

you know, who is the one?

And we're overlooking, I mean, people like Greg Kassar.

I don't know if you're following him.

I mean, there are so many interesting people.

And I think it's--

it's a time to understand everyone has a role to play.

Everyone has a role to play.

And there are a lot of good players,

a lot of strong players on the field,

like back to your sports analogy.

JON STEWART: A role to play.

But what's-- what's the larger--

is it-- are--

right now, is the Democratic Party a party of influencers?

Or is it a national movement toward something coherent?

KAMALA HARRIS: It needs to be both.

It needs to be both.

JON STEWART: Which-- which would

you place her in the-- in the Kamala

Harris hierarchy of needs?

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, one works with the other, right?

Because having a sense of direction and vision

and then having the influencers who, with their capacity

to-- you know, to hold a mic in a way that people listen,

is gonna be very important.

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: It's gonna be very important.

And it is very important.

JON STEWART: Do you feel like you've re-energized from this?

Do you feel this past year has been--

what's been the importance of this past year for you?

KAMALA HARRIS: You know, it was rough at the beginning.

When we went back home after the inauguration,

you know, the election happened, and January 6,

and I'd fulfilled my constitutional responsibility

and duty--

JON STEWART: Mm-hmm.

KAMALA HARRIS: Then we had--

JON STEWART: You're talking about the January--

not the January 6--

the January 6 where you did it-- without the fighting,

the other Jan--

KAMALA HARRIS: Not the January 6 when I was sitting

in the DNC, when there was a live bomb outside of it,

and I was vice president-elect, not that January--

JON STEWART: You're talking about the other January 6

KAMALA HARRIS: I'm talking about the other January 6.

JON STEWART: Somehow went off fine.

That all went fine.

KAMALA HARRIS: When I, as vice president of the United States,

performed my constitutional duties--

JON STEWART: Yes, that's right.

KAMALA HARRIS: --to certify--

JON STEWART: How was--

KAMALA HARRIS: --free and fair election--

JON STEWART: That's right.

KAMALA HARRIS: Exactly, right, which, for some reason, was

big news because we didn't--

JON STEWART: We peacefully transferred

power again We're back, baby!

KAMALA HARRIS: Look at us, right?

Look at what we've done.

JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah.

KAMALA HARRIS: But I just--

I think that we--

we've been through a lot.

You know, for me, for my husband,

Doug, our family, you know, we had-- we had a period of--

of transitioning and-- and not just transitioning.

It was so much more than that-- of really

just starting to reflect.

I mean, that's part of why I wrote the book, just--

I did not allow myself any reflection for those hundred

and seven days.

It was about I need to get it done, I need to get it done.

Every day, I-- can I do more?

Can I do more?

And then after that, after the inauguration, going back home

was about literally and figuratively unpacking.

I mean, literal boxes and just unpacking it all

and reflecting and processing.

JON STEWART: And even the scene of, you

know, as you were doing that, the fires

and, like, you didn't even know if you were--

what you were coming home to.

KAMALA HARRIS: We were evacuated from our house

until January 19, the day before the inauguration,

when we had to leave.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: So anyway, look, a lot of people

have been through a lot.

And-- and for us, it-- there was a period of just kind

of trying to find the normal.

And-- and then I started writing this book.

And now I'm on this tour, and I just--

I love traveling our country and-- and just, you

know, creating a space, hopefully

for people to come together and feel a sense of community.

You know, some people have been telling me

that the book actually kind of gave them some closure

around that whole period.

JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: And so let's kind of get beyond it

and get back out there, and not a time to be passive

or put the covers over your head, saying, you know,

wake me up when it's over, there's no time.

You know?

There's no time for that.

JON STEWART: It's gonna be over, I think.

KAMALA HARRIS: Well, like I said,

I think it may get worse before it gets better, to be candid.

But we have to be active.

JON STEWART: I really appreciate you taking the time.

You know, reading the book and seeing sort of--

I mean it.

Really, I hope people understand

the dichotomy of that moment, when you found out, I'm--

I'm doing this, the explosion of enthusiasm,

of walking into rooms now of 20,000, 30,000

people and they're chanting--

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: --and to go, in a third of a year,

from that to it's over, go back, I think--

I hope people can appreciate the emotional whiplash

that I'm sure must have been, you know,

a large part of that journey.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

You are a sensitive guy, Jon Stewart.

JON STEWART: What? No!

KAMALA HARRIS: You are-- [LAUGHS]

JON STEWART: Not at all!

KAMALA HARRIS: You understand feelings!

JON STEWART: Can I tell you something, though?

And this is gonna sound awful.

There's a couple times in the book where you're like,

and I told myself, I'm not gonna cry.

And I'm like, there's no way that I could have done that.

Like, I remember, I went on the show after my dog died,

and tens seconds into it, I was like, you don't understand!

It was Dipper!

He's the best!

And so the idea that you could like,

have the emotional fortitude to just be like,

I'm not crying, like, kudos.

KAMALA HARRIS: Thank you.

JON STEWART: Cause I--

I couldn't pull that off.

Madam Vice President, thank you for spending some time with us.

KAMALA HARRIS: It's good to be with you.

Thank you for your voice, too, Jon.

Thank you.

JON STEWART: Really appreciate it.

Take care.

KAMALA HARRIS: Take care.

Bye

[THEME MUSIC]

JON STEWART: Interesting.

[LAUGHTER]

WOMAN: Yes.

BRITTANY: That's it.

JON STEWART: Sometimes frustrating.

WOMAN: Uh-huh.

I know I could not get on board with the catharsis of the book.

She said someone found it cathartic to read.

I felt like it was a countdown to, like, the end times.

It's just like, oh--

BRITTANY: It's DEFCON 5 to DEFCON 1.

You knew the ending.

JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it's hard for me.

I always get the sense, when I'm talking to these folks,

that they know more and feel more

about what's right than what they are able to let on.

And the minute you get them beyond the confines of where

they think they might make a misstep,

things are communicated much more clearly.

And I wish that that was the starting point.

Does that resonate with you guys in any way?

BRITTANY: I think for politicians,

saying nothing is better than saying something wrong.

And that isn't to say that she said nothing,

but it's just a very, very cautious approach.

But there were, like, some moments I don't quite

understand, like the thing you brought up, Jon,

about the difference between campaigning and governing,

and at least since, what?

2008?

It's been the same, the constant--

JON STEWART: It's a constant--

WOMAN: --campaign for everyone.

JON STEWART: I should have mentioned that, you know,

cause it was-- you know, she talked about Biden

could have governed but not campaigned.

And I was like--

WOMAN: It's the same, though.

JON STEWART: And part of the problem with that is,

part of being president is being energetic enough

to relentlessly fight back against the narratives

that come out against whatever policies you want to do,

to be--

unfortunately, you've gotta be the person

that is designing, implementing, and also selling.

And I just don't think it's possible.

WOMAN: Yeah, when she said that, I--

actually, this is something that I feel

like Brittany can relate to.

I was like, it's like the difference between running

and being the president is like, Taylor Swift preparing

for the Eras Tour versus Taylor Swift being on the Eras Tour.

And honestly, both sound exhausting.

So-- both are key to being Taylor Swift.

JON STEWART: Brittany, do you wanna--

do you wanna answer to that?

WOMAN: Imagine attending four times, guys.

JON STEWART: Right.

That's exhausting in and of itself.

No.

What were you gonna say, Brittany?

BRITTANY: I just thought the emotion, when you guys were

talking about Biden, the emotion

that you could feel in her tone change was so

authentic and real, and that--

just hearing her talk about it, like,

you can tell that's a heavy for her.

JON STEWART: Oh, there's moments

in the book where I'm like, she want-- she wants to be like,

this motherfucker.

Like, there was real anger there, and there's real hurt.

But there's also-- she talks about

they spent 3 and 1/2 years throwing her under the bus--

BRITTANY: Yeah.

JON STEWART: --and not supporting her.

So I can imagine real grievance.

BRITTANY: And you can feel-- like, I think

she's being honest about that, especially

in this conversation, which was-- really stood out to me.

JON STEWART: Yeah.

Brittany, what do we got for this week?

WOMAN: Alrighty, Jon.

BRITTANY: First up, do you think

they are trying to make CBS News a more respectable

version of Fox News?

JON STEWART: I don't know that you can make something more

respectable than Fox News when you're

talking about the flagship station for American news.

They report.

We're the ones who decide.

And I think we've decided that it's--

no idea.

Like, that-- I can truly plead-- like, every indicator--

every indication is they are using

some sort of magnetic field to pull it

more clearly to the right because I guess their diagnosis

is, it's too far to the left.

I would not suggest that the problem with CBS News is that

it's so left wing, to be quite--

to be quite honest with you, and certainly not the problem

with the 6:30 broadcast, which is--

you know, I think they should start with the graphics first.

[LAUGHTER]

But-- or they should just go the David Muir route, which is,

tonight, breaking news, America on fire.

We have the video--

on fire, underwater, in attack.

It's like a constant--

ABC News is like, whatever-- whatever the fuck they got

on video that day, that's exploded,

that is what's going to be on there.

Like, CBS, especially with Dickerson

and-- and Maurice DuBois, is more like,

how was your day, John? It was good.

There were some things that happened.

I wanted to talk to you. It's mostly about education.

We're gonna go out to that now, but I'm not sure.

Where in the studio is that?

Oh, why is that screen there?

OK.

And then you just flip over to ABC,

and he's just like, hunger!

Fire!

Kill them!

WOMAN: I used to write those, Jon.

JON STEWART: Oh, really?

WOMAN: Yeah.

JON STEWART: No way!

WOMAN: Watching you perform them, though,

is really warming my heart.

JON STEWART: Oh, thank you so much.

Is that a directive?

Is that something that is explicit?

WOMAN: You wanna catch people's attention away

from their making dinner and such.

JON STEWART: Well, it works.

WOMAN: Yeah, you were watching.

[LAUGHTER]

JON STEWART: I'm fucking up my dinner left and right!

All right, what else we got?

BRITTANY: Jon, when President Trump's term ends--

JON STEWART: What?

Wait, are we breaking news?

It's going to end?

BRITTANY: (SINGING) Dun, dun, dun.

JON STEWART: All right.

BRITTANY: How much of the White House

do you think he will take back to Mar-a-Lago as souvenirs?

JON STEWART: So here's what I think ultimately will happen.

When his term is done, he will just end up still living there.

And more than likely, the Trump organization

will rent out Mar-a-Lago for whatever the new president is.

And they'll have to stay down there

because nobody puts in a 90,000 square foot

ballroom for the next guy.

Nobody-- nobody takes the time to do-- nobody--

unless you're flipping houses, unless he's Ellen and Portia,

and just flipping houses and--

whoever the next person is.

But I can't imagine, you know, the-- the idea that

they're gonna build a 90,000 square foot ballroom for two

state dinners, and then he's gonna be like,

all right, see ya.

WOMAN: I'm also a renter, and I'm not allowed

to drill holes into the wall.

So it feels like--

[LAUGHTER]

--feels like building a ballroom,

that's out of the question.

BRITTANY: I didn't listen.

I drilled the holes, just to be clear.

JON STEWART: What?

How dare you.

WOMAN: Don't look too closely behind me.

JON STEWART: I wonder what this will

do, though, to his security deposit and if--

when they come in and go, like, what's this, right here?

And you're like, that was the East Wing.

Oh, yeah.

No, that's not-- we--

I told you about that.

It's another thing.

The one thing he hasn't done though, is tried to sneak pets

in. That's the other-- you know.

WOMAN: Yeah.

JON STEWART: That's where I would get in trouble.

Like, you get in there, and people would be

like, why are there cows here?

You'd be like, mm, I don't know.

WOMAN: I don't know anything about that.

JON STEWART: I think they lived here.

BRITTANY: Beats me.

JON STEWART: So excellent job, as always,

you kids, nicely done.

We all read the book.

We all talked about the book.

It was like our little book club.

We had a little book club.

BRITTANY: Oh.

WOMAN: Yeah, let's do it more. I liked it.

BRITTANY: Same time next month.

JON STEWART: On 107 Days.

And it was doable, not like that Jill Lepore book

that nearly--

that Jill Lepore book nearly broke me.

But thank you guys.

Lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany

Mehmedovic, producer Gillian Spear,

video editor and engineer.

Rob Vitolo, Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce.

And our executive producer is Chris McShane Caity Gray.

Very well done, guys. Thanks so much.

See you next time.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

JON STEWART: The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount

Audio and Busboy productions.

Key Vocabulary

Vocabulary	Meanings
campaign /kæmˈpeɪn/ B2	noun - a series of activities to achieve a goal, especially in politics verb - to work actively to support or promote something
president /ˈprɛzɪdənt/ A2	noun - the leader of a country or organization
election /ɪˈlɛkʃən/ A2	noun - the process of choosing a person for a position by voting
trust /trʌst/ B1	noun - belief in the reliability or integrity of someone or something verb - to believe in the reliability of someone or something
government /ˈɡʌvərnmənt/ B1	noun - the group of people who officially control a country
disinformation /ˌdɪsɪnˈfɔːrmeɪʃən/ C1	noun - false information spread deliberately to deceive
transparency /trænsˈpærənsi/ C1	noun - the quality of being open and honest about something
process /ˈprɑːsɛs/ B2	noun - a series of actions or steps taken to achieve a particular end verb - to treat or modify something in a particular way
voter /ˈvoʊtər/ B2	noun - a person who votes or has the right to vote
information /ˌɪnfərˈmeɪʃən/ A2	noun - facts or details about something
data /ˈdeɪtə/ B1	noun - information, especially scientific or computer-analyzed
system /ˈsɪstəm/ B1	noun - a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done
party /ˈpɑːrti/ A2	noun - a group of people who share the same political beliefs
establishment /ɪˈstæblɪʃmənt/ C1	noun - a group of powerful people who control a country or organization
rhetoric /ˈrɛtərɪk/ C1	noun - speech or writing which is intended to be impressive or convincing
agenda /əˈdʒɛndə/ B2	noun - a list of subjects to be discussed at a meeting
relationship /rɪˈleɪʃənʃɪp/ B2	noun - the way in which two or more people or things are connected
complicated /ˈkɑːmplɪkeɪtɪd/ B2	adjective - difficult to understand or deal with
podcast /ˈpɑːdkæst/ B2	noun - a program made available on the internet for downloading to a computer or mobile device

Key Grammar Structures

• KAMALA HARRIS: Depends on where you're from.

  ➔ Present Simple Tense

  ➔ Used to express general truths or habitual actions. Highlighted words: "" depends "", "" from "".

• JON STEWART: If we just throw him enough parades with cultural music.

  ➔ First Conditional

  ➔ Expresses a real or possible condition in the present/future. Highlighted: "" If "" and "" we'll "".

• KAMALA HARRIS: But it was-- it was an unprecedented in American history.

  ➔ Passive Voice

  ➔ The subject receives the action. Highlighted: "" was "" and "" unprecedented "".

• KAMALA HARRIS: I think the process by which it occurs is really quite opaque.

  ➔ Relative Clauses

  ➔ Adds extra information in a sentence. Highlighted: "" which "".

• KAMALA HARRIS: We send-- we call them canvassers, door knockers.

  ➔ Present Simple Progressive (Stative)

  ➔ Used for ongoing actions or habitual states. Highlighted: "" call "" as a verb of naming.

• JON STEWART: Everything about how, you know, our candidates are chosen.

  ➔ Gerund

  ➔ Verb form acting as a noun. Highlighted: "" chosen "" (gerund form implied).

• KAMALA HARRIS: Whether it is about a candidate's ability to fund raise.

  ➔ To-Infinitive

  ➔ Purpose or after certain verbs. Highlighted: "" to fund "".

• KAMALA HARRIS: They are filled with information.

  ➔ Adjective Complement

  ➔ Complements adjectives with prepositions. Highlighted: "" with information "".

• JON STEWART: I'd save a surprise like that for the end of the ad.

  ➔ Modal Verb (Would)

  ➔ Expresses hypothetical or past habit. Highlighted: "" I'd "".

• KAMALA HARRIS: We were gonna go after corporate landlords.

  ➔ Going To Future

  ➔ Plans or intentions. Highlighted: "" were gonna "".