[English]
Celina de Sola: I feel like you can hold
hope and despair at the same time, right?
Like, it's OK to hold those things.
Because if you're trying to be hopeful,
you can't really always
let go of the sadness
and the despair and the frustration.
So it's like, how do we hold
those simultaneously
in a way that enables us to keep working
and keep learning
and, you know, collaborating.
[Intersections]
[Presented by TED]
[David Fajgenbaum, Immunology researcher]
[Celina de Sola, Public health expert]
I'd love to hear about your work.
What are you working on?
What are you doing?
David Fajgenbaum: I’m on a mission
to save and improve lives
with the drugs that we already have.
We use an AI platform
to scan across the world's knowledge
of every drug and every disease
to find out new uses
for the medicines that we already have.
CD: That’s amazing.
DF: And tell me about yourself.
CD: So actually we were
founded in El Salvador,
an organization founded in El Salvador,
we're trying to create systems
that are more trauma-informed
to make sure, especially
in contexts of violence,
but to make sure so kids
and families can navigate
the adversity they face and thrive,
right, instead of just, you know,
struggling with the impacts
of stress and trauma on their lives.
And we work in public schools, too,
to make sure that those
schools are safe spaces
where they can learn
and receive the support they need.
DF: What is it about the system
that made you really want
to tackle this problem?
CD: I think that we realized
that we didn't really see,
that most people,
just society in general,
but also teachers, nurses, doctors,
the systems we were working with
didn't have an understanding
or the necessary understanding
of the impacts of stress and trauma.
So we wanted to figure out
how we could provide,
you know, that knowledge, those skills,
so everyone that children
and young people and families
would interact with in these systems —
education, health, law enforcement —
would be able to do that,
to provide, you know,
to provide a service
that is more trauma-informed
and understands why
people behave the way they do
and how we can change the way we interact.
DF: I was reading about your work.
You've had such an incredible impact.
It's just amazing.
CD: Likewise, I'd love to hear about you,
I read about your story,
and I'd love for you to tell me
a little bit more about it in person.
DF: I went from being this healthy,
third-year med student at Penn,
where I know we both were students,
to becoming critically ill.
My organs started to shut down,
my liver, kidneys,
bone marrow, heart, lungs.
And I went from being
this totally healthy med student
to being critically ill.
Fifteen years ago was when
I went into the hospital in the ICU
and nearly died five times
over the course of a three-year period
from this horrible disease
called Castleman disease
before eventually getting a diagnosis,
beginning to receive chemotherapy
and then discovering a drug
that wasn't made for my disease
that could save my life.
A drug that was made
for organ transplant rejection,
I thought could maybe treat my disease.
And I started testing it on myself.
And it's been 11.5 years that I've been
in remission on this medicine.
I mean, the moment
that this drug started saving my life,
all I've been able to think about
is how many more drugs are out there
that are made for one disease
that could actually save way more lives.
And that's just become
my complete obsession.
And now we've got
this nonprofit working on it.
CD: That's unbelievable.
But how did you think of seeing
if one medicine could work
for something else?
Obviously, you have a medical background,
but how did that actually happen?
What brought you to actually say,
"I know there's something out there"?
DF: Well, there's a couple of things.
One was that I'd been getting
seven different chemotherapy drugs
with each of my relapses.
Every time I was in the ICU,
they'd give me seven chemotherapies,
but they weren't made for my disease.
And I kept thinking,
everyone's telling me
there's no drugs for Castleman's,
but you keep giving me chemotherapy
and they don't work long-term,
but they're saving my life.
Maybe there's another drug
made for another disease.
It was just that simple of a concept:
these things work,
maybe there's something
else that could work.
And the other was just the realization
that I had no other option.
I didn't have a billion and 15 years
to create a brand new drug.
If I wanted to survive, I would have
to find something that existed.
So it was the constraints of the system.
And then what's been so crazy
is how many drugs there are out there
that can help more people
that we've been neglecting for so long.
CD: And so much funding
has gone into developing those drugs, too.
It's like, you already have
all this R and D,
what can you do to leverage that?
DF: And so let's think
about how this relates back
to the work that you're doing.
We've got systems that are broken
that you guys are working to address.
How do you try to leverage
maybe what's already in place?
Or maybe you just try
to start from scratch.
CD: You know, I think for us,
I'm from El Salvador,
we were working in some of the countries
that had the highest rates of violence
about 20 years ago when we started.
And before that, I did humanitarian aid.
So I worked mainly in countries affected
by conflict and natural disasters.
And we were just seeing
that we weren't equipped,
our systems aren't equipped to deal
with so many of these things
and mental health and well being,
which I think we understand
a lot better now after the pandemic,
are so foundational for other outcomes.
You can't access learning,
your physiological,
what we consider
traditional physiological health,
weakens or worsens
if you're not well emotionally.
So we were seeing that
and we also understood
that the best way to address,
we knew from science,
that the best way to address the impacts
of stress and trauma in children
is a caring adult in their life.
DF: And maybe share about an individual
that has really been touched by your work,
I'd love to hear a personal story.
CD: Oh, my gosh, there's so many.
But one of them comes to mind.
You know, when you work with young people,
most organizations
that work with young people
don't necessarily work
with law enforcement.
And when we were looking
at what the ecosystem was
that we wanted to convert
into something more trauma-informed,
we wanted to include law enforcement
because we knew young
people interact with police
in, you know, sometimes great ways,
sometimes not great ways,
in different ways.
So one police officer
that we were working with,
she was explaining how
difficult it is to take calls.
She was working in a really
tough municipality,
high rates of homicide and crime.
And how it changes you to be exposed
constantly to human suffering,
which I'm sure it does in medicine, too.
You're just exposed to human suffering.
How do you get through that,
how it changes you.
So we started working after training
a lot of officers, you know,
and she became a trainer
and an interventionist.
She was explaining that now
not only was she better able
to manage her own,
to self-regulate,
to feel better and be well,
but she was able
to provide that for her peers.
So it changed the way
they interacted with communities.
And interestingly, right, when you talk
to young people, she was afraid.
For example, "I don't know
if I leave today
if I'm going to come back alive."
And a lot of young people would tell us
the same thing in their community.
So it was identifying these opportunities.
And now, a few years later,
we've been able to work
with national police in three countries,
and they're integrating
mental health training
as part of their cadet training.
So we're really excited.
Tell me about you.
I know you've been working
so much on systems
and I'm really excited to hear about it.
DF: As you said before,
it's all about impact.
That's why we do what we do.
And for you, your impact
is so broad-reaching
and also so deep within
these individuals, within communities.
And for us similarly, we have
a very bold and broad mission.
And that's to save and improve lives
with the drugs we already have
by repurposing medicines.
We're called Every Cure,
which is a big, broad remit.
But I'll share with you about one
patient in particular, named Joseph.
And actually, he was at the TED Talk
that I gave just a few months ago
and was able to be there in the audience,
which was so special because I told
his story during the talk.
And his story is
that he was critically ill
with a horrible, rare cancer
called POEMS syndrome,
and his doctors had tried
everything the doctors knew to try
for this rare cancer.
And his girlfriend, Tara,
reached out to my team on a Friday.
Joseph was getting ready
to be transferred
to hospice care that Monday,
because nothing was working.
And I was able to get in touch
with his doctor on that Saturday
and recommend three drugs
that were made for multiple myeloma,
which is a cancer that's similar
to POEMS syndrome,
but those drugs are not used for POEMS.
And the doctor and I had a long discussion
and there were a lot of debates
about whether he could
tolerate these medicines
and whether we should sort of give
this last Hail Mary effort.
And the doctor decided
to try the medicines.
And amazingly, Joseph
responded incredibly well.
By that Thursday, he was out of the ICU.
And now it's been over a year
it's almost a year and a half now
he's been in remission.
These drugs were always there.
They were just made
for a different disease,
a disease that actually is very
similar to the disease that he has.
And it's just been so special
to see patients like Joseph
get their lives back.
Joseph and Tara, a year and a half ago
were planning Joseph's funeral.
Now they're planning
their wedding together.
And, you know, this idea
that the medicine was there,
but we humans hadn't done
the work to match it together,
it's just what drives us.
We've got so many solutions out there,
and we've got to help patients with them.
CD: It's unbelievable.
We have the solutions there, right?
You have the medicines
and the compounds there,
and we have the human resources
that are already there.
It's like, how do we really capitalize
on these resources
that are sometimes latent with regards
to other things they can do?
But what do you do to stay optimistic?
What do you do with the setbacks
when you have a patient
and you just can't find that cure?
And how do you manage that?
DF: Yeah, there are many cases
where we aren't able to find
a repurposed drug for a patient
and they do pass away from their disease.
It's just so heartbreaking.
When you have a personal
mission like the two of us have,
where that's all we can think about,
and it's what drives us.
And certainly when I've gone
through similar experiences
and to be on this other side,
it's heartbreaking when you're not
able to find the solution.
It's also really motivating.
It just, you know, pushes us
to work harder and harder.
And then there's patients
like Joseph and others
that we've been able to help and save
that motivates us even further.
It's the setbacks,
the cases where
we're not able to help patients
and then also the [cases]
where we are able to help patients,
it's really created a circuit.
And anytime I'm struggling,
you know, with the challenges
of this nonprofit, of Every Cure
and the work that we do in research,
I just think about what
these patients are going through,
what we're doing pales
in comparison to the suffering
that they're going through.
And we're just trying to stay
as motivated as we can to find solutions.
How do you get through
these challenges and setbacks?
CD: I mean, it's hard, right?
I mean, I just got a text
yesterday from someone,
a nurse at a clinic that we've
been working in the schools --
We work in public schools in different
parts of the countries we work in.
And she called me and she was telling me
about a girl who had survived violence
and she was pregnant four months.
It's just this horrible story
in a really tough situation.
And she was asking for intervention.
And there's the worry around
teen suicide and just support.
And you hear these horrible stories
and I agree with you.
It's like, how do we focus
on the successes, right?
And then also in those successes,
how do we try to support
other people around us
who are working on these same
issues, you know,
whether they're
in government or nonprofit.
And I think, you know, for me,
there are days where you're just exhausted
and you're like, oh, you feel
like you're kind of running in place
and everything's so urgent.
I mean, you're saving lives, right?
We're trying to keep people,
also like, trying to save lives,
trying to prevent
the perpetuation of violence.
And I think -- I also draw
inspiration from the successes
and from the people we work with,
that determination.
And then one thing I've come to terms with
in the last few years
is that I feel like you can hold
hope and despair at the same time.
Like, it's OK to hold those things,
because if you're trying to be hopeful,
you can't really always let go
of the the sadness
and the despair and the frustration.
So it's like, how do we hold
those simultaneously
in a way that enables us to keep working
and keep learning and collaborating.
DF: What you're saying is almost
like sitting with the pain, sometimes.
And I think that it's sitting
with the pain,
sitting, in our cases,
with the loved ones
of patients who didn't make it,
patients who are suffering.
It's, you know, understanding
what the stakes are.
And then to your point, celebrating
and really leaning on the mentality
and the positive outlook of the cases
where you're able to help
and it sounds like you're going
through the same sort of thing.
How do you think about scale?
So obviously you started, you know,
hyper local and you've really
grown in scale.
How have you thought
about scaling the impact of your work?
CD: I mean, we started
volunteering in schools, right?
Like, how can we be
a caring adult for a kid,
almost 20 years ago,
when we started Glasswing.
And I think we just, over time,
started hearing from the students
and from the teachers,
aside from the work we were doing
to meet basic needs, so to speak,
infrastructure, provide after-school
programs, learning opportunities.
We just started seeing
that there was this underlying issue
and we were seeing
kind of the negative impacts
of the exposure to stress and trauma.
So I think for us, we've always worked
within systems with this idea,
I guess the analogy for your sector
would be almost like R and D
for systems, right?
So we're like, how can we learn
from students, parents, teachers,
if we're working deeply
and long-term in communities?
And that's what we've been doing.
So with mental health,
we knew that there was an opportunity
to do non-clinical work
by doing this psychoeducation,
trauma education.
And, you know, fast forward,
we were able to get the funding
through Audacious,
we were able to get the resources.
And now what's really exciting is
that because there's such a demand
and there's been such stigma around this,
which has improved during the pandemic,
but now there's a huge demand for it.
So the exciting thing is these systems,
they want this to be
a part of what they do,
not just from a human resource standpoint
retention, performance,
everything, quality of care,
but also it's become like a priority.
So now we're, you know, the curricula,
mental health training is being integrated
into teachers colleges
that we're working with
or medical schools, nursing,
child protection, judges.
So it's almost demand-driven,
which is really exciting.
And then also making sure
we're constantly learning and adapting
and responding and listening
to those we work with
to make sure that we're really
achieving this whole vision
of ecosystems and systems change.
But in our case, there's no doubt
we have to work with public sector
to reach as many people as we can.
We also see them as a huge,
frontline workers in particular,
as a huge resource.
DF: Wow, well, I see parallels in our work
in that, you know, it started very,
I guess I'd say hyperlocal with me
in the sense that I was very sick
and found a drug
that I repurposed for myself,
and then immediately,
like you, started thinking,
OK, if this drug worked for me,
are there other drugs that could work
for other patients?
And at first it was just
Castleman's patients,
and then we started looking
at diseases related to Castleman’s,
other rare diseases.
We've now repurposed 14 drugs
for diseases they weren't intended for.
And now thousands of patients are alive
because of these drugs
that weren't made for their disease.
But about three years ago,
we decided to really scale things.
And that was with the creation
of this nonprofit Every Cure.
And it really coincided with the emergence
of artificial intelligence.
So, you know,
I run a lab at the University
of Pennsylvania
and I'm very proud of our team,
we can study, you know, a couple drugs
for a couple diseases a year
and make a lot of progress,
and we were really proud of that.
But then when you think
about what artificial intelligence can do
to scan across the world's knowledge
of every drug and every disease --
CD: Quickly.
DF: Almost instantly, right?
To come up with predictions on how likely
drugs are to work in new diseases,
it's really mind boggling.
And just to sort of
put some numbers around it,
when we built our first AI platform,
about two and a half years ago
and ran it for the first time,
it took us 100 days to compute
75 million scores,
because there's 4,000 drugs
and there's 18,000 diseases.
So if you tried every drug
for every disease,
it would be 75 million possibilities.
It took 100 days.
Now it takes about 17 hours
to compute the same 75 million scores.
The scores are really accurate,
they're telling us
that drugs like lidocaine
can help potential patients
with breast cancer.
Things that, you know, our brains
would have never gone to immediately.
But what's so interesting also,
is that a lot of these insights
are based on research
that we, humans, have already done.
You know, we've studied this drug
in the lab for this disease,
and it maybe showed promise,
but then we moved on
to that drug for that disease
because this wasn't
a profitable opportunity.
Or maybe this was a better opportunity
for someone's career.
And so there's all these breadcrumbs
that have been spread all over
the medical research system.
And artificial intelligence is so good
at picking up those breadcrumbs,
making the connections.
And then it's really up to us.
And like you, we won an Audacious
Project award this past year.
And now it's up to us to leverage
the power of artificial intelligence
to look across 75 million possibilities.
But then for us humans to say
this drug, for this disease really needs
to be studied in the lab,
this one needs to be in clinical trials,
and this one we have to get to patients.
One of those diseases
that I talked about in my TED Talk
that I shared in the spring,
it was a drug called leucovorin.
It was developed for patients
on a form of chemotherapy decades ago,
and then used along with another form
of chemotherapy decades ago.
Turns out that a fraction
of children have antibodies
to prevent a vitamin
from getting in their brain.
But if you give them this old drug
that was developed to be given
to patients on chemotherapy,
it can help to get
that vitamin folate into their brain.
And for a fraction of these kids,
it can help them to speak,
improve their verbal communication skills.
And this sort of thing, where it's like,
us humans, we made the connection,
brilliant work was done,
but the last mile wasn't taken.
And that's because it's a cheap old drug,
and it's not that anyone wants
to suppress the information,
it's just that no one's incentivized
to get the word out.
There's no drug company behind this.
And so these are the kinds of systems
problems that exist that you see,
and I see every day,
where it's like one little
tweak here or there
can really unlock a lot
of value and potential.
CD: So how did you transition
from what you were doing,
the deep work, into the systems work
and what would you tell other people?
Like, what would you advise other people
who are trying to push forward there?
DF: I think if you observe
a major problem,
like you did and like I did,
I think it's really important
when you start to solve it,
to ask questions around what's
already being done within the system.
Let's not try to reinvent
the wheel, like you mentioned.
Let's see what already exists.
So I started asking more questions.
Physicians, researchers, pharmaceutical
companies, government agencies,
you know, there must be someone
working in our system
to try to find new uses for old medicines,
there's got to be some entity
that's responsible for making sure
the drugs we have work
for all the patients that can benefit.
And the more I looked, the more I learned
that there wasn't this system.
Then I started trying to understand
OK, what does exist?
And you know, what gaps can we fill in?
So I think the advice is really,
get into the space, get going.
I think a lot of times people want
to sort of do a lot of fact-finding
and a lot of learning,
"I wonder what's going on here."
Get into the space, start helping people,
start doing the work,
start trying to fix the problem,
then start asking about the system.
But don't stop asking questions
until you figure out
as much as you can about the system.
And then I think maybe I'd say
the third piece of advice would be
to make sure that you've got
an awesome team.
For me, I know a lot
about drug repurposing
and a lot about immunology,
and I can match drugs to diseases,
but I really don't have strengths
in systems and policy.
And so I've got amazing colleagues
who I can work with that can help us
to make these sort of changes.
CD: Yeah, I totally agree with you.
I think the team is key because
we all have different skills, right?
Like, linear thinking,
the more creative thinking.
And I think you’re right,
it’s like, what does exist?
For us, that was always really important.
It was important for us
to be a local organization.
Like, you know, founded
and based in Latin America
and really making sure
that we were listening.
I think what you said
about asking questions
and I think asking beforehand,
but also continuing to ask, right,
like, what else is there,
continuing to understand
the systems we're working in
and their priorities.
Because I feel like if we can,
even if we don’t necessarily align
with other things like politically
or, you know, whatever it is,
I think we can align what we can align on.
And when we find those things
that we can align on,
you can really drive change together.
And for us, working with public systems,
there was no question.
We know we can never reach everybody.
And even though governments change,
that's the other thing
that for us was important
when working with systems change.
It's not just working with government
officials that are appointed
and in that administration,
it's working at the operational level
with people who are working every day,
whether, you know,
teachers, administrators,
mid-level professionals,
regional coordinators.
So really thinking about the people
within government systems
that, you know, they outlive
government changes
because they're working there.
And it's also they have
this vocational drive,
like, they have this vocation to be there,
this desire to be in these systems.
So I think for us, it was important
to make sure that we continue
to engage people who are part
of these systems at all levels,
not just going from the community
to the ministers,
but everywhere in between.
And thinking big, right?
Thinking big, but also
maintaining that depth,
that depth of work with individuals,
with young people, communities.
Because you can do both.
You know, you can do both.
And I think if you don't really understand
deeply what challenges are,
it's really hard to work
on systems change and scale.
DF: That's great.
Yeah, I think about facing challenges.
I think that you need
at least three things
to be able to overcome a big challenge.
I think what we're doing could certainly
be described as big challenges.
One of them is, I think,
you have to have a vision
for what you're working towards,
because when you're going
through tough times,
if you don't know
what you're fighting for,
you can't literally visualize it,
at least for me,
I can't keep the fight going.
And I remember this back from
when I was in the intensive care unit.
Literally, as I said,
today marks 15 years
from when I was first hospitalized.
And I just remember
that I thought so much
about, one day I'm going to be able
to search for treatments
in memory of my mom,
one day I'm going to be able
to maybe get married
to this amazing person
that I was with, Caitlin.
But that vision, I think, is so important.
The second is the people by your side,
the team that you've got,
you've got to have
an amazing team supporting you.
And for me, I was lucky when I was so sick
to have such great support around me.
And the third, I think,
it's really this one step at a time
that grind that you were describing,
you know, meeting with these people
and those people and doing this and that.
I think you have to take it
one step at a time
because it's just too overwhelming.
If someone had gone to you
on the first day you were volunteering
at the first school and said,
we want you to create what you have now,
you'd have been like, no way.
Or at least I would have said it.
I can't do that, I can do this one thing,
but I can't do that other thing.
But I think taking those little
tiny, bite-sized pieces, at least for me,
I think that helps me be able
to do this sort of stuff.
CD: Yeah, because
it's always overwhelming.
Those bite-sized, it's helpful, I think.
And you know, when you were
talking about visualizing,
one of my favorite books is "Man's Search
for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl.
And I remember in that book,
he does a lot of visualizing,
and a lot of thinking about it.
And I think having hope sometimes
or often or perhaps always
requires being able to envision, you know,
you sitting in this hospital room
and they told you they can't save you.
I can't imagine what
that must have been like.
That must have been
so heartbreaking, so young.
And why, right, all these things.
So I think that's a really good point.
And something that I think we always
have to do in this sector.
To not fry, burn out.
DF: I'm so glad you mentioned hope.
Hope is, as you know, so powerful.
It's like you have to have hope
to overcome any challenge.
And also, I found that in some contexts,
hope can be, almost, not helpful
in the sense that if you're
overly hopeful,
you sort of assume someone else
is going to solve it
and it sort of prevents you
from taking action.
But the type of hope
that you're talking about
and the type of hope that I love
so much, is the hope that drives action.
It's because I can see
what I'm hoping for,
because I want to help these young
people in these communities like you do,
or in our case, patients
with these diseases like we try to help,
that's going to drive action.
And when there's this
hope in action circuit,
I find that you can get even more hopeful,
then do even more action
and then be more hopeful
and drive even more change.
CD: 100 percent, as you were saying,
the hope in action.
It's cyclical, right?
Because as you do it, you're like, OK.
And even if you have to take,
like 12 steps back, you're like, OK,
back to the grind.
And I definitely have to draw
on people around me a lot of times
for that hope and the energy to do it.
DF: What's your leadership philosophy,
for how you lead your teams
and make change?
CD: Oh, my gosh.
I mean, I feel like
so much of leadership
is about doing things together
and knowing when to get out of the way.
And I think --
And asking for help.
I've always found it hard
to ask for help generally,
and I think,
almost 20 years in to our organization,
it's just really asking for help ...
And just being OK with stepping back
on a lot of things.
And I think that the other thing
that's been really important
is to build a really diverse team
and understand, you know,
what my weaknesses are,
what different people's strengths are
and find people that bring
different skill sets,
different knowledge, different approaches,
different attitudes to the work
to keep it dynamic and more --
I think more productive.
DF: Yes, I love that.
CD: How about you, what do you think?
How big is your team?
DF: We've got about 50 people
that are part of Every Cure,
and then about 20 people
that are part of my lab at Penn.
And so for me, similar
to what you mentioned,
I think one part of having
a really effective team
is just assembling the right people
to be a part of this,
effectively assembling
mission-driven people
where, like, they are here
to help patients.
That's why they're here.
They're not here for a paycheck,
they're here to help patients.
I think that's number one.
So recruiting is so important.
I think you put a lot of time
into finding the right people.
And the second thing is really
being able to set that vision
of what we're working towards,
and making sure just to constantly
remind everyone of what that vision is:
“We recruited you
to save and improve lives.
You are the best person
in the world to help us do that.
You're the best person in the world
to build our AI platform
to help us save and improve lives, but
it’s always to save and improve lives.”
And I think visualizing, as we talked
about earlier, is so important.
That's like literally showing
patients that are here
because of a repurposed drug
and also those who are waiting for a drug.
And I think that being able
to really visualize,
it's so powerful for me
and I think it's helpful for our team.
And then I think the third thing
is maybe obvious,
but I just think that over-
communication is so important.
I think that anytime
you're facing big challenges,
like you're facing and like we're facing,
there's so many cases where you could get
misaligned on one thing or another,
but just keeping the conversation going,
continue to communicate,
just being present with one another,
working together is so important.
And that's challenging for my group,
and I'm sure for yours as well,
because we are located
in a number of different locations.
And so you aren't always able to,
you know, bump into someone
you know, over lunch.
You have to really be intentional
about communication.
CD: Yeah, I mean,
we're working different countries,
different time zones,
and we have a really big team of people.
It is really hard, communication is hard.
And I think you’re right
about maintaining that fluidity.
And I'd say not just with our teams,
I also think leadership is about
what interactions and partnerships
we're developing, with who,
outside of the institution.
And I think also maintaining
the humility as an organization,
especially when you're
working with systems
to know that you're not
within that system,
so you can't necessarily understand
everything that they're going through.
So I think we've learned,
as an organization and in our leadership,
whoever it is in the organization,
when we're working with people
from other sectors,
particularly from government sector,
to maintain kind of that humility
and curiosity about what it's --
you know, maintain
the humility and curiosity
about what it's like and what they need,
what their priorities are
and what they're interested in.
DF: I love that you called out
humility and curiosity
because I just think
those are two ingredients
that you need in every single team
and every single problem
that you're trying to solve.
Because if it was easy to solve,
then someone else would have done it
and we wouldn't be working so hard.
So we've got to be humble
because these are tough challenges.
Well, this has been so awesome.
I've so enjoyed
spending this time with you.
CD: Congratulations
on everything you're doing.