How has the most connected society in history
00:00
also become the loneliest?
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It's easy to forget how far we've come.
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In just a matter of years, we've gone from phone calls to text messages to video chat.
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In an instant we can ring up a family member across the world
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and feel more connected with them given the distance then we could have
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at any other point in history.
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This was science fiction in the 20th century.
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It's during that same period of innovation that brought us one-click shopping:
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anything we could need delivered to our door the same day.
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And so we bought, and stored, and used, and replaced
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a generation living better than Louis the fourteenth,
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yet finding ourselves more secluded than ever.
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Why do people, even after they have their basic needs met with all the tools we have available,
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why are we not only unhappy,
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but largely depressed?
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Author and journalist Johann Hari set out across the world
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to speak with leading experts on depression, anxiety, and loneliness
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to discover both how we've gotten to this place and more importantly
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how do we as individuals in a society start to turn the tide?
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This is my 20-minute interview with Johann about what he learned from that research.
00:59
All right, so why don't we start out with a little bit of a intro about yourself and about your work.
01:04
I really- I write my book "Lost Connections" because there were the- these two mysteries that were really hanging over me for years
01:10
Look, I was quite afraid to look into them in some ways
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The first mystery is I'm 40 years old and every year that I've been alive
01:19
Depression and anxiety have increased here in the United States, in Britain, and across the Western world
01:25
Right and I kept asking myself
01:31
Why?
01:34
Why is this happening? Why are so many more of us each year that passes finding it hard to get through the day right and
01:35
I guess I wanted to understand that from because I'm a more personal mystery
01:42
When I was a teenager
01:47
Remember going to my doctor and explaining that I had this feeling like a pain was leaking out of me out
01:49
So I put it at the time
01:55
and I felt
01:56
Very ashamed of it
01:58
I felt
02:00
Confused by it
02:01
I didn't understand why it was happening
02:02
And my doctor told me a story that, and now realized were speaking to the leading scientists in the world on this was oversimplified
02:04
Right. My doctor said we know why people feel like this. It's just cuz of a problem in your brain
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There's a chemical called serotonin that makes people feel good
02:15
Some people are naturally lacking it. You're clearly one of them. All we need to do is give you some drugs
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You're gonna feel better
02:23
so I started taking a chemical anti-depressant called Paxil and I felt significantly better for a few months and
02:24
Then this feeling of pain came back. So I'm back doctor said wanna get high enough dose. I was gonna hide dose again
02:29
I felt better again. The feeling of pain came back and I was really in this cycle of taking higher and higher doses
02:35
until for thirteen years
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I was taking the maximum dose you're allowed to take at the end of which I was still really depressed
02:42
And I was surrounded by people who are becoming more and more depressed
02:46
So I just forced myself really to start looking into this. So I ended up going on this big journey for the book
02:49
I travelled over 40,000 miles
02:56
I wanted to meet the leading experts in the world about what causes depression and anxiety
02:58
And what solves them most importantly so I'm at you know
03:02
Not just leading experts, but just a crazy mixture of people with different perspectives from an Amish village in Indiana
03:05
Cuz the Amish have very low levels of depression to a city in Brazil that banned
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Advertising to see if that would make people feel better to a lab in Baltimore than where they were giving people
03:15
Psychedelics to see if that would help and I learned a huge number of things but the core of what I learned
03:20
Is that there's scientific evidence for nine different causes of depression and anxiety
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Two of them are in fact biological. My doctor wasn't wrong and
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Your genes can make you more vulnerable to these problems
03:35
just like some people find it easier to put on weight than others and
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There are real changes in your brain that begin when you become depressed that can make it harder to get out
03:40
but most of the factors that cause depression or anxiety are not in our biology. Most of the factors for which there's scientific evidence are
03:46
Factors in the way we're living and what I learned in the process of writing the book and speaking to so many
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Scientists is once you understand the causes of depression or anxiety in this more complex way
04:00
Opens up a much broader range of possible solutions that I saw being pinned
04:06
Just all over the world
04:12
And these are solutions that we need to be explaining to people and offering to them alongside not instead of but as an option alongside
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Chemical antidepressants why is society at large?
04:21
Reacting in this way. What do you think are some of the influences on people's well-being?
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That's leading to the higher and higher rates and depression and anxiety
04:29
I'll give you an example of one of the nine causes that arrived at in lost connections. We are below Lea's society
04:33
There's ever been there's a study that asks Americans
04:39
how many close friends do you have you could turn to in a crisis and
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When they started doing this years ago
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The most common answer was five today the most common answer not the average but the most common answer is none half of all Americans
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Asked how many people know you well say
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Nobody right? I spent a lot of time talking to an amazing man called professor
04:59
John Cacioppo is that it was the leading expert in the world on loneliness. He was at the University of Chicago
05:03
And he explained to me
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Why are we alive you and me and everyone watching this? Why do we exist?
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One key reason is that our ancestors on the savannah's of Africa were really good at one thing
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They weren't bigger than the animals they took down. They weren't faster than the animals they took down
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But they were much better at banding together into groups and cooperating just like bees evolved to live in a hive
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Humans evolved to live in a tribe and if you think about the circumstances where we evolved if you were cut off from the tribe
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You were depressed and anxious for really good reasons. You weren't terrible danger you were about to die
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Those are still the impulses we have we are the first humans ever
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In the long 2 million year history of our species to try to disband our tribes and is making us feel awful
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So a key thing for me was not just to understand these problems. But ok. How do we solve those problems?
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Right and one of the heroes of my book Lost Connections is an amazing man called. Dr
06:02
Sam ever Hampton who pioneered a whole different approach based on this understanding
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so Sam was a general practitioner in East London poor part of East London where I live for a long time and
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Sam was really uncomfortable because he had loads of patients coming to him with terrible depression and anxiety
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And like me he thinks there's some role for chemical antidepressants
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But he could also see most of the people he was giving them to did become depressed again
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And he could see that they were depressed and anxious for perfectly understandable reasons
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Right like to give one of the examples I took about in the book loneliness
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So he decided to pioneer a different approach one day a woman came to see him called Lisa Cunningham
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He'd been shut away in our home with dreadful depression and anxiety for seven years and Sam said to Lisa. Don't worry
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I'll carry on giving you these drugs. I'm also gonna suggest something else. There was an area behind the doctors the suite of doctors offices
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There was no known as dog share alley which gives you sense of what it was like just kind of scrubland
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Sam said to Lisa what I'd like you to come and do is turn out a few times a week
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I'm gonna come to you cuz I've been pretty anxious
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We're gonna meet with a group of other depressed and anxious people. And we're gonna
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find something to do together as a group, right the first time the group met Lisa was literally physically sick with anxiety
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But the group starts talking they're like, what can we do?
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These are inner-city East London people
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They don't know anything about gardening they decided they're going to teach themselves gardening right gonna turn dogshit alley into a beautiful garden
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So they started watching YouTube. They start to read books
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They start to get their fingers in the soil. They start to learn the rhythms of the seasons
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There's a lot of evidence that exposure to the natural world is a really powerful
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Antidepressant start to do something even more important. They started to form a tribe
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they started to form a group they started to care about each other and you know, if
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If one person didn't turn up, they'd go and look for them. They'd see if they were okay
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They did what human beings do when they're part of tribes. They started to solve each other's problems
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The way Lisa put it to me as the garden began to bloom. We began to bloom
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There was a study in Norway of a very similar program found. It was more than twice as effective as chemical antidepressants. I
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Think for an obvious reason, right?
08:18
It was dealing with some of the reasons why they felt so bad in the first place and this is something I saw all over
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The world from Sydney to São Paulo
to San Francisco the most effective strategies for dealing with depression and anxiety
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Are the ones that deal with the reasons why we're in such distress in the first place?
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You said that we're living in the loneliest society. There's ever been
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how
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Can that possibly be with all of these tools at our fingertips, right we have social media
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We have the ability to connect and interact with anybody in an instant
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I can FaceTime my mom in a second. And if she picks up then we can I can see her face to face
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has social media
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Played some part in the fact that we are lonely
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This is a complex question and with a complex answer
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So the glib answer is to go, yeah social media did this to us. Is this too simplistic?
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To understand this I went to the first-ever internet rehab center in the world. It's in just outside Spokane in Washington State
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It's called restart, Washington. I remember I've arrived there. It's a clearing in the woods
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I get out. I got out the car and absolutely instinctively
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I looked at my phone to check my email and felt really pissed off. I couldn't see it go. There was no reception
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I was like, oh wait you came to the right place?
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Right and I spent a fair bit of time there and it's totally fascinating
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They get a whole range of people at restart Washington, but they disproportionately get
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Young men who become obsessed with these multiplayer role-playing games like World of Warcraft or not at the time that I was there
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but now fortnight right and
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I'm about Dr. Hillary cash the amazing woman who runs this Center
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Sent me that you've got to ask yourself
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What are these young men getting out of these games? Because they're getting something right? I
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think what they're getting
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is a
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Kind of hollow version of the things they used to get from the society
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But they no longer get they get a sense of a tribe they get a sense of status and they can gain in status
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They get a sense. They're good at something they get a sense. They're moving around
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Young people barely leave their homes. Now. It's incredible the figures for how rarely children play outdoors
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but what they're getting is, I started to think that the relationship between say these these games or
10:29
For media and social life is like the relationship between porn and sex, right?
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I'm not against porn don't meet a certain basic edge
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But if your entire sex life consisted of looking at porn you'd be going around pissed off and irritated the whole time
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Because we didn't evolve to masturbate over screens
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We evolved to have sex right that wouldn't meet your deeper needs in the same way
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I'm not obviously not against the internet would be ridiculous, right?
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But we didn't evolve to talk through screens, right
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We didn't evolve to look at each other and interact through with our friends through screens
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If you and I was speaking even via Skype now
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I wouldn't feel you were seeing me and you wouldn't feel you was the other way around
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In the way that we feel that we are seeing and hearing each other now, right?
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human beings have a need to be seen and
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The leading expert on loneliness in the world professor John Cacioppo said gave me good little rule of thumb. He said
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If social media is a way station for meeting people offline or staying in touch with them that you'll see offline
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It's a good thing if it's the last stop on the line generally something's gone wrong
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But he's I think we have to think about as well
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the moment in human history when social media arrives
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Right a lot of the causes of depression and anxiety that I write about in my book loss connections
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Were already supercharged by then by the late 90s the early 2000s loneliness have gone up
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Values have gone up a whole range of things
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And what happens is the internet arrives and it looks a lot like the things we've lost
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You've lost friends. Here's a load of Facebook friends. You've lost status
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Make some status updates, right but it's not the thing. We've lost. It's a kind of
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Parody of the thing we've lost and what we need to do in very practical ways is restore
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The thing we've lost it seems like today. We have a lot of distractions
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That could potentially pull us away from that connection
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It seems like a lot of people are driven through consumerism and materialism
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and
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Many of us are safer and have more than ever have before the size of homes has increased steadily
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since the
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1930s and 40s
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is there any correlation between
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material wealth and
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Happiness, one of the things I found most challenging in the research for the book because I could see how much it played out in
13:00
my own life
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Was some research by an amazing man called Professor Tim Casa
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So everyone knows junk food has taken over our diets and made us physically sick right as I can tell from my chins
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I'm not immune to this myself
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But it's equally strong evidence that a kind of junk of values have taken over our minds and made us mentally sick
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Professor Kass showed. So for thousands of years
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Philosophers have said, you know if you think a life is about money and status and shoving off. You're gonna feel like shit, right?
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It's not an exact quote from Confucius. But that is the gist of what he said, right?
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But no one scientifically investigated this until professor Kassar
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And he showed a few I think really important things
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Firstly he showed the more you think life is about money and status and shoving off
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The more likely you are to become depressed and anxious by a really quite significant amount
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I think this is because we're going a little bit beyond professor kasih here, but I think this is because
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Everyone knows they have natural physical needs right? You need food. You need water. You need shelter. You need clean air
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If I took those things away from you. You'll been real trouble real fast, and there is equally strong evidence that all human beings have natural psychological means
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You need to feel you belong you need to feel your life has meaning and purpose. You need to feel that people
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See you and value you beautifully. You've got a future that makes sense and our culture is good at lots of things
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I'm glad to be alive today
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but we've been getting less and less good and meeting these deep underlying psychological needs if you think
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partly because there's many factors going on but partly because if you think life is about money and and
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Displaying that money that's gonna divert you from the things you actually do need to have a a meaningful and satisfying life
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But professor Cass also said something else. So you showed the more you follow these junk values
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The more likely while to become depressed and anxious
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He also showed as a society as a culture. We have become much more driven by these junk bodies
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It's a cliche to say to your viewers
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You won't lie on your deathbed and think about what the likes you've got on Instagram and all the shoes you bought right?
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You'll think about moments of love and meaning and connection in your lives. But as Professor Casa puts it we live in a machine
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That's designed to get us to neglect
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What is important about life right more eighteen-month-old children know what the McDonald's M means the know their own last name?
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we're immersed in a machinery that tells us how to do this professor Gossard had really interesting research about how we
15:29
How we undo some of that and some of it was really simple
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he got a group of people to me once every couple of weeks for four months and just talk about
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firstly
15:47
consumer objects, they thought they had to have
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things like Nike sneakers
15:50
Once they talked out loud
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how do you think your life will be different when you've got them didn't take long for people to start seeing maybe this is
15:54
Bullshit that's been implanted in my head by advertising but then there were important bit was they've got people to talk about well
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What are moments
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That's not a moment that's gonna make you feel satisfied
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What are moment's you have actually felt your life was meaningful satisfying, but we'll talk about different things to some people
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It was playing music some people it was swimming some people it was writing whatever it was and and they started saying well
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How could you build more of that into your life seeking more of that and doing more of that and less of?
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seeking this kind of junk value stuff and
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Just that process of meeting every couple of weeks and checking in with each other and explaining how they try to do it
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Led to a measurable. They did a good scientific study at this
16:36
Immeasurable shift in people's values to become less materialistic, which we know relates to less depression and anxiety. Now of course is the case that
16:40
And a guy professor richard Laird has done research on this if you don't have a baseline of material goods
16:48
right
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If you are in poverty that makes you then you are going to be unhappy
16:54
But once you've actually reached a fairly low level of income that you're not actually wanting the basic things
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additional money makes, you know happier and actually
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Constantly seeking it leads to a corruption of values that makes significantly more unhappy
17:07
We talked a little bit before we sat down here about Marie Kondo and minimalism and this movement of people rejecting
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consumerism and materialism
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to live with less stuff to purchase less things to
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Focus less on status in their lives
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Do you think
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I'm curious
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Just what your your thoughts on this this movement towards less is and if you think in some way it will help people
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Figure out their values again and reset these junk values that we've created for ourselves
17:40
I haven't looked into any huge amount of detail, but
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We live in a hurricane of messages
17:49
Telling us
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The answer to our pain and distress lies in shopping, right? This is a really interesting study that was done in
17:55
1978
18:04
really simple
18:06
You get a bunch of five year olds you
18:07
Divide them into two groups first group is shown two advertisements
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For whatever the equivalent to like Dora the Explorer or the Teletubbies was in 1978. I forget what it was
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Second group is shown no advertisements then all the kids are told
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Hey kids got a choice now
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You can either play with a nice boy who doesn't have the toy in the embarrassment or you can play with a nasty boy
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Who's got the toy? The kids had seen just two advertisements
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overwhelmingly chose the nasty boy who had the toy and
18:37
The kids who haven't seen their advertisements overwhelmingly chose the nice boy who didn't have the toy right? So just two ads just two
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We're enough to prime those kids to choose an inanimate lump of plastic over the possibility of fun and connection, right?
18:49
Every single person watching your video has seen more than two ads today right more than two advertising messages. So we're living in this
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hurricane of messages
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Bombarding us with a very particular before
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Advertising sells any specific product. It sells the idea that the solution lies in
19:12
Purchasing things right? I mean imagine
19:18
Advertising is the ultimate frenemy right? It's saying babe I love you. I think you're great. But if you didn't stink
19:21
I mean, I'm just saying if you weren't so hairy, I'm just saying, right. It's the ultimate
19:26
yeah, it's
19:30
It worked. The premise of is it has to make you dissatisfied right?
19:32
I mean in the advertised you look at what advertising people say internally to each other
19:36
they're very candid about this they call it invented once right because actually
19:40
The things that we need are relatively limited
19:45
The whole machinery has to be built around making us feel inadequate and then making us by the solution right? So I
19:48
think
19:56
Movements that say, you know, I'm just gonna purge this shit right back
19:58
That is not the answer right? Of course. There are nice things. We all like to have nice things
20:03
I have some nice things but the idea that this ceaseless
20:09
Treadmill are buying and displaying useless bullshit
20:15
The idea that we might want to step off that treadmill and go
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Maybe I've got a limited amount of time in which to be alive. Maybe I'll spend my time on things that are more meaningful
20:24
seems to me to be a
20:31
really positive step
20:33
Thanks for watching this video
20:37
If you want to get the full 40 minute interview with Johan you can get it at patreon.com slash Matt de Bella
20:38
Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time
20:44
Lyrics & Translation
[Chinese]
历史上联系最紧密的社会是如何形成的
也成为最孤独的？
很容易忘记我们已经走了多远。
在短短几年的时间里，我们已经从打电话发展到短信再到视频聊天。
我们可以立即给世界各地的家庭成员打电话
并感觉与他们的联系更加紧密，因为距离远了
在历史上的任何其他时刻。
这是 20 世纪的科幻小说。
正是在同一创新时期，我们实现了一键式购物：
我们需要的任何东西都会在当天送到我们家门口。
因此我们购买、存储、使用和更换
比路易十四生活得更好的一代人，
却发现自己比以往任何时候都更加僻静。
为什么人们即使在我们提供的所有工具都满足了他们的基本需求之后，
为什么我们不仅不快乐，
但很沮丧？
作家兼记者 Johann Hari 启程环游世界
与抑郁、焦虑和孤独方面的顶尖专家交谈
了解我们是如何到达这个地方的，更重要的是
作为社会中的个体，我们如何开始扭转局势？
这是我对 Johann 的 20 分钟采访，内容是关于他从这项研究中学到的东西。
好吧，我们为什么不先简单介绍一下您自己和您的工作呢？
我真的-我写《失去的联系》一书是因为-这两个谜团多年来一直困扰着我
看，我很害怕以某些方式研究它们
第一个谜团是我已经 40 岁了，而且我活着的每一年
在美国、英国和整个西方世界，抑郁和焦虑有所增加
对，我一直问自己
为什么？
为什么会发生这种情况？为什么我们每年都会有那么多人发现很难度过美好的一天
我想我想了解这一点，因为我是一个更个人化的谜
当我十几岁的时候
记得去看医生并解释说我有一种疼痛正在从我身上漏出来的感觉
所以我当时把它写下来
我觉得
非常羞愧
我觉得
对此感到困惑
我不明白为什么会发生这种情况
我的医生给我讲了一个故事，现在我意识到我们与世界顶尖科学家讨论的这个问题过于简单化了
对。我的医生说我们知道人们为什么会有这样的感觉。这只是因为你的大脑有问题
有一种叫做血清素的化学物质可以让人感觉良好
有些人天生缺乏它。你显然是其中之一。我们需要做的就是给你一些药物
你会感觉好一些
所以我开始服用一种名为 Paxil 的化学抗抑郁药，几个月后我感觉明显好转，
然后这种痛苦的感觉又回来了。所以我回来了，医生说要服用足够高的剂量。我本来想再次隐藏剂量
我又感觉好多了。疼痛的感觉又回来了，我真的处于服用越来越高剂量的循环中
直到十三年
我服用了允许服用的最大剂量，但最后我仍然非常沮丧
我周围的人都变得越来越沮丧
所以我强迫自己真正开始研究这个问题。所以我最终踏上了这本书的伟大旅程
我行驶了超过 40,000 英里
我想会见世界领先的专家，了解抑郁和焦虑的原因
最重要的是解决这些问题的是什么，所以我知道你知道
不仅仅是顶尖专家，而且是来自印第安纳州阿米什村庄的具有不同观点的人们的疯狂组合
因为阿米什人的抑郁症程度非常低，而巴西的一个城市禁止
做广告，看看这是否会让人们对巴尔的摩的实验室比他们为人们提供的实验室感觉更好
迷幻剂看看是否有帮助，我学到了很多东西，但我学到的核心是
有科学证据证明抑郁和焦虑的九种不同原因吗
其中两个实际上是生物学的。我的医生并没有错
您的基因会让您更容易受到这些问题的影响
就像有些人发现比其他人更容易增加体重并且
当您变得沮丧时，您的大脑就会发生真正的变化，这会让您更难摆脱困境
但大多数导致抑郁或焦虑的因素并不在我们的生物学中。大多数有科学证据的因素是
影响我们生活方式的因素以及我在写这本书和与许多人交谈的过程中学到的东西
科学家们一旦以这种更复杂的方式了解了抑郁或焦虑的原因
开辟了更广泛的可能解决方案，我看到这些解决方案被固定
全世界
这些是我们需要向人们解释并提供给他们的解决方案，而不是作为替代方案，而是作为一种选择
化学抗抑郁剂为什么是整个社会？
以这种方式反应。您认为对人们福祉有哪些影响？
这导致发病率越来越高以及抑郁和焦虑
我将为您提供导致连接丢失的九个原因之一的示例。我们处于莉亚社会之下
曾经有一项研究询问美国人
您有多少亲密朋友可以在危机中求助？
几年前他们开始这样做时
今天最常见的答案是五个 最常见的答案不是平均值，但最常见的答案不是所有美国人的一半
被问到有多少人认识你时说
没人吧？我花了很多时间和一个叫教授的了不起的人交谈
约翰·卡西奥波 (John Cacioppo) 认为，它是世界上研究孤独问题的顶尖专家。他当时就读于芝加哥大学
他向我解释
为什么我们还活着，你和我以及每个人都在观看这个？我们为何存在？
一个关键原因是我们非洲大草原上的祖先确实擅长一件事
它们并不比他们捕获的动物大。他们并不比他们击倒的动物快
但它们更擅长团结成群并合作，就像蜜蜂进化到生活在蜂巢中一样
人类进化是为了生活在一个部落中，如果你想想如果你与部落隔绝，我们进化的环境
您感到沮丧和焦虑是有充分理由的。你并没有面临可怕的危险，你快要死了
这些仍然是我们的冲动，我们是有史以来的第一批人类
在我们人类长达 200 万年的历史中，试图解散我们的部落，这让我们感到很糟糕
所以对我来说，关键的事情不仅仅是理解这些问题。但好吧。我们如何解决这些问题？
是的，我的书《失去的联系》中的英雄之一是一个了不起的人，名叫。博士
Sam Ever Hampton 基于这种理解开创了一种完全不同的方法
所以山姆是东伦敦贫困地区的一名全科医生，我在那里住了很长时间，
Sam 真的很不舒服，因为他有很多患有严重抑郁和焦虑的病人来找他
和我一样，他认为化学抗抑郁药有一定作用
但他也看到他所给予的大多数人确实再次变得沮丧
他可以看出他们出于完全可以理解的原因而感到沮丧和焦虑
好吧，想举一个我在《孤独》一书中提到的例子
因此，他决定开创一种不同的方法，有一天，一位名叫丽莎·坎宁安 (Lisa Cunningham) 的女士来看他
山姆对丽莎说，他因可怕的抑郁和焦虑而被关在我们家里七年了。不用担心
我会继续给你这些药物。我还要建议一些其他的东西。医生后面有一个区域，是医生办公室的套房
没有所谓的狗共享胡同，这让您感受到灌木丛的感觉
萨姆对丽莎说，我希望你每周来几次
我会来找你，因为我一直很焦虑
我们将与一群其他抑郁和焦虑的人会面。我们要
找到一些可以作为一个团队一起做的事情，就在大家第一次见到丽莎时，丽莎确实因焦虑而身体不适
但是大家开始讨论，我们能做什么？
这些是东伦敦市中心的人
他们对园艺一无所知，他们决定自学园艺，把狗屎巷变成一个美丽的花园
于是他们开始观看 YouTube。他们开始看书
他们开始把手指伸进土壤里。他们开始学习季节的节奏
有大量证据表明，接触自然世界确实具有强大的功效
抗抑郁药开始发挥更重要的作用。他们开始组建部落
他们开始组建一个团体，开始互相关心，你知道，如果
如果有人没有出现，他们就会去找他们。他们会看看自己是否还好
他们做了人类作为部落成员时所做的事情。他们开始解决彼此的问题
当花园开始盛开时，丽莎对我说。我们开始绽放
挪威进行了一项研究，发现了一个非常相似的计划。它的效果是化学抗抑郁药的两倍多。我
考虑一个显而易见的原因，对吧？
它首先解决了他们感觉如此糟糕的一些原因，这是我到处都看到的
从悉尼到圣保罗的世界
前往旧金山 应对抑郁和焦虑的最有效策略
是那些首先解决我们陷入如此困境的原因的吗？
你说我们生活在最孤独的社会。曾经有过
如何
我们有社交媒体吗？所有这些工具都触手可及吗？
我们有能力立即与任何人联系和互动
我很快就能与妈妈进行 FaceTime 通话。如果她接电话我们就可以 我可以面对面看到她
有社交媒体
在我们孤独的事实中发挥了一定作用
这是一个复杂的问题，也有一个复杂的答案
所以圆滑的答案是走，是的，社交媒体对我们造成了这种影响。这也太简单了吧？
为了了解这一点，我去了世界上第一家互联网康复中心。它位于华盛顿州斯波坎郊外
这就是所谓的重启，华盛顿。我记得我已经到过那里了。这是树林中的一块空地
我出去了。我下了车，完全本能地
我看着手机查看电子邮件，感到非常生气。我看不到它消失。没有接待处
我当时想，哦等等，你来对地方了吗？
是的，我在那里呆了相当长的时间，它非常令人着迷
在重启华盛顿时，他们召集了各种各样的人，但他们不成比例地得到了
在我在那里的时候，是否沉迷于《魔兽世界》等多人角色扮演游戏的年轻人
但现在两周了
我是希拉里·卡什博士（Dr. Hillary Cash），她是经营这个中心的一位了不起的女性
告诉我你必须问自己
这些年轻人从这些游戏中得到了什么？因为他们做对了事情？我
想想他们得到了什么
是一个
他们过去从社会得到的东西有点空洞
但他们不再有部落感，他们有地位感，而且他们可以获得地位
他们有一种感觉。他们擅长某些他们能感觉到的事情。他们在四处走动
年轻人几乎不离开家。现在。令人难以置信的是，孩子们很少在户外玩耍
但他们得到的是，我开始认为这些游戏或
对于媒体和社交生活来说就像色情和性之间的关系，对吗？
我并不反对色情片不符合某些基本优势
但如果你的整个性生活都是看色情片，你就会一直生气和恼怒
因为我们没有进化到在屏幕上自慰
我们进化到了正确的性行为，但这并不能以同样的方式满足您更深层次的需求
我显然不反对互联网，这很荒谬，对吧？
但我们并没有进化到通过屏幕交谈，对吧
我们并没有进化到可以通过屏幕互相注视并与朋友互动
如果你和我现在甚至通过 Skype 通话
我不会觉得你在看我，你也不会觉得你在看我
就像我们现在能看到对方、听到对方的感觉一样，对吗？
人类需要被看到并且
世界领先的孤独问题专家 John Cacioppo 教授给了我很好的小经验法则。他说
如果社交媒体是您离线见到的人或与他们保持联系的中转站
如果这是线路的最后一站，那是一件好事，通常会出现问题
但我认为我们也必须考虑他
人类历史上社交媒体到来的时刻
我在《失去联系》一书中提到的许多抑郁和焦虑的原因是正确的
到了 90 年代末，2000 年代初的孤独感已经增强
价值已经全面上涨
互联网到来后，它看起来很像我们失去的东西
您失去了朋友。这里有大量 Facebook 好友。你已经失去了状态
进行一些状态更新，没错，但这不是重点。我们输了。这是一种
模仿我们失去的东西，我们需要以非常实际的方式做的是恢复
我们失去的东西就像今天一样。我们有很多干扰
这可能会让我们脱离这种联系
似乎很多人都受到消费主义和物质主义的驱使
和
我们中的许多人比房屋面积稳步增加之前更安全，拥有的东西也比以往任何时候都多
自
1930 年代和 40 年代
之间有什么相关性吗
物质财富和
幸福，是我在这本书的研究中发现最具挑战性的事情之一，因为我可以看到它在书中发挥了多大作用
我自己的生活
是一位名叫蒂姆·卡萨（Tim Casa）教授的了不起的人所做的一些研究
所以每个人都知道垃圾食品已经占据了我们的饮食并使我们身体不适，这一点从我的下巴就可以看出
我自己也不能幸免
但这同样有力地证明，一种价值观的垃圾已经占据了我们的思想，让我们患上了精神疾病
卡斯教授展示了。所以几千年来
哲学家说过，如果你认为生活就是金钱、地位和推开，你就知道。你会感觉很糟糕，对吧？
这并不是孔子的原话。但这就是他所说的要点，对吗？
但直到 Kassar 教授之前，没有人对此进行过科学调查
他展示了一些我认为非常重要的东西
首先，他表明你更多地认为生活是关于金钱和地位的，然后推开
您越有可能变得非常沮丧和焦虑
我认为这是因为我们有点超出了 kasih 教授的范围，但我认为这是因为
每个人都知道他们有自然的身体需求，对吧？你需要食物。你需要水。你需要庇护所。你需要洁净的空气
如果我把那些东西从你身边拿走。你很快就会遇到真正的麻烦，而且有同样有力的证据表明，所有人都有自然的心理手段
您需要感觉到自己有归属感，您需要感到自己的生活有意义和目的。你需要感受到人们
见到你并珍视你。您将拥有一个有意义的未来，我们的文化擅长很多事情
我很高兴今天还活着
但我们的表现越来越差，无法满足这些深层次的潜在心理需求，如果您认为
部分原因是有很多因素在发生，部分原因是如果您认为生活就是金钱和
展示金钱会分散您对真正需要的事物的注意力，让您过上有意义且令人满意的生活
但卡斯教授还说了一些别的话。所以你表明你越遵循这些垃圾价值观
变得抑郁和焦虑的可能性越大
他还将社会表现为一种文化。我们变得更加被这些垃圾机构所驱动
对观众说的话已经是陈词滥调了
您不会在临终时躺在床上思考您在 Instagram 上获得的点赞以及您购买的所有鞋子，对吧？
您会思考生活中的爱、意义和联系的时刻。但正如卡萨教授所说，我们生活在一台机器中
这是为了让我们忽视
生活中什么最重要，让十八个月大的孩子知道麦当劳的 M 意味着什么并知道自己的姓氏？
我们沉浸在一台告诉我们如何做的机器中，Gossard 教授对我们如何做进行了非常有趣的研究
我们如何撤消其中一些，其中一些非常简单
他让一群人每隔几周来找我一次，持续了四个月，只是谈论
首先
...
消费者对象，他们认为他们必须拥有
诸如耐克运动鞋之类的东西
一旦他们大声说话
当你拥有它们后，你认为你的生活会有何不同？没过多久人们就开始看到也许这就是
这些废话是通过广告植入我脑海的，但重要的是他们让人们可以很好地谈论
什么是时刻
这不是一个让你感到满意的时刻
哪些时刻您真正感到自己的生活有意义且令人满意，但我们会向某些人谈论不同的事情
它在播放音乐，有些人在游泳，有些人在写任何东西，他们开始说好
你怎样才能在你的生活中建立更多这样的东西，寻求更多的东西，多做一些事，少做一些事？
寻找这种垃圾有价值的东西并且
就是每隔几周举行一次会议，互相检查并解释他们如何做到这一点的过程
带来了可衡量的结果。他们在这方面做了很好的科学研究
人们的价值观发生不可估量的转变，变得越来越物质主义，我们知道这与减少抑郁和焦虑有关。现在的情况当然是
如果你没有物质产品的基线，理查德·莱尔德教授对此进行了研究
右
如果你陷入贫困，那么你就会不快乐
但是，一旦您的收入实际上达到相当低的水平，您实际上并不想要基本的东西
额外的钱可以赚钱，你知道更快乐，实际上
不断寻求它会导致价值观的腐败，从而使人更加不快乐
在我们坐下来之前，我们聊了一会儿近藤麻理惠、极简主义以及人们拒绝的运动
消费主义和物质主义
用更少的东西生活，购买更少的东西
减少对生活地位的关注
你认为
我很好奇
您对这场减少运动的想法是什么？如果您认为这会以某种方式帮助人们
再次找出它们的值并重置我们为自己创建的这些垃圾值
我没有研究任何大量的细节，但是
我们生活在信息的飓风中
告诉我们
解决我们痛苦和烦恼的办法就是购物，对吧？这是一项非常有趣的研究，是在
1978
非常简单
你有一群五岁的孩子
将它们分为两组，第一组显示两个广告
不管是 1978 年的《爱探险的朵拉》还是《天线宝宝》，我都忘了那是什么了
第二组不显示广告，然后所有孩子都被告知
嘿孩子们现在有选择了
你可以和一个尴尬但没有玩具的好男孩一起玩，也可以和一个讨厌的男孩一起玩
谁有玩具？孩子们只看过两个广告
压倒性地选择了那个拥有玩具的讨厌男孩
没有看过广告的孩子绝大多数都选择了没有玩具的好男孩，对吗？所以只有两个广告就两个
我们足以让孩子们选择无生命的塑料块而不是乐趣和联系的可能性，对吗？
今天观看您视频的每个人都看到了两个以上的广告以及两个以上的广告信息。所以我们生活在这个
消息飓风
用之前非常特别的方式轰炸我们
广告销售任何特定产品。它兜售的理念是解决方案在于
买东西对吗？我的意思是想象
广告是终极亦敌对吗？这是在说宝贝我爱你。我觉得你很棒。但如果你不臭的话
我的意思是，我只是说如果你没那么毛茸茸的话，我只是说，对吧。这是终极的
是的，就是
成功了。前提是它必须让你不满意吧？
我的意思是，在广告中，你会看到广告中的人们在内部互相说了什么
他们对此非常坦诚，他们称其为一次正确的发明，因为实际上
我们需要的东西相对有限
整个机制必须围绕让我们感到不足，然后让我们找到解决方案，对吗？所以我
认为
这些动作表明，你知道，我要立即清除这些垃圾
这不是答案吗？当然。有美好的事情。我们都喜欢拥有美好的事物
我有一些美好的东西，但这个想法是不断的
跑步机正在购买和展示无用的废话
我们可能想走下跑步机并去
也许我的生存时间有限。也许我会把时间花在更有意义的事情上
在我看来是
非常积极的一步
感谢您观看此视频
如果您想观看 Johan 的 40 分钟完整采访，可以在 patreon.com 上获取：slash Matt de Bella
感谢您的观看，我们下次再见
[English]
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Key Vocabulary
Start Practicing
| Vocabulary | Meanings |
|---|---|
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depression /dɪˈpreʃən/ B2 |
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anxiety /æŋˈzaɪəti/ C1 |
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loneliness /ˈloʊnlinəs/ B2 |
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society /səˈsaɪəti/ A2 |
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experts /ˈɛkspɜrts/ B1 |
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research /ˈriːsɜrtʃ/ B1 |
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brain /breɪn/ A2 |
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antidepressant /ˌæntiˈdɪˈpresənt/ C1 |
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journey /ˈdʒɜrni/ B1 |
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cause /kɔz/ A2 |
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tribe /traɪb/ B2 |
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group /ɡrup/ A2 |
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garden /ˈɡɑrdən/ A1 |
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media /ˈmidiə/ B1 |
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values /ˈvæljuz/ B2 |
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needs /nidz/ A1 |
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feel /fil/ A1 |
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become /bɪˈkʌm/ A2 |
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live /lɪv/ A1 |
|
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connect /kəˈnekt/ B1 |
|
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