– Bilingual Lyrics Chinese/English

Lyrics & Translation

[English]

Hello, all listeners

Welcome to listen to the latest episode of Boyin

I don’t know if you are listening now

in the morning or at night

Are you getting ready to go to sleep

or just got up

But I don’t feel enough sleep

I want to talk about the topic of this episode today

I am personally very interested

and I am also deeply troubled by it

It is almost a lifelong theme

That is sleep

Then we invite the webmaster of Wowsai Psychology

We are here to welcome teacher Cai Yuzhe

Hello Bo En

Hello everyone, listeners

I am Yuzhe

I am very happy to be here

I can come and talk to you about sleep again

In fact, is this what I want to talk about in today’s episode?

We can chat for a very, very, very long time

Yes, because basically we are on the topic of sleep

We have held a 36-hour workshop

Yes

It depends on how long we want

We can chat for as long as we want

Okay, then I will first

address some of my personal questions

Then there may be some wild questions

and then ask for advice

Have you seen similar phenomena in academic circles?

The first thing I am very confused about is

Why do we need to sleep?

Why do we need to sleep?

If we talk about organisms,

the simplest way to say it is

If you don’t sleep, you will die. Because a sleep researcher who just started doing research

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also wanted to know this question very much

But you can't do experiments on people

What should I do

Just use mice

So let the mice

stay awake all the time

The study found that under normal circumstances

he would take about four to six weeks

and the mice would die

In addition, death

What is the cause of death?

At the beginning, researchers also thought that

if it was because of the heart,

the heart would have lesions.

Then lesions would appear in other places.

So they wanted to know

exactly where

lack of sleep would cause problems.

What was the result?

There is no consistent answer.

In other words, what?

There may be some cardiovascular problems

There may be other local problems

But they will not all point to where

The last study

He found that ultimately

you can have a more clear answer is

In the later stage

his caloric regulation became unbalanced

Simply speaking, these mice

will eat twice as much as usual

That is, he eats a lot

but his weight becomes half of his original weight

So everyone imagines that you eat a lot

but you are getting thinner and thinner

This is what we just talked about

The imbalance of his entire energy system

The imbalance of the energy system

It will also affect the entire system of our body

He will have problems

Well, this is animal research

Then we mentioned

In fact, in humans

you can't do this kind of research

Has it only been done in mice?

Are there other animals?

I want to know

Other animals are actually more advanced than mice.

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It actually once had a

very special brain disease

Before I talk about this disease

I want to ask Bowen a question first

Suppose

Suppose you know

You have a familial genetic disease

Then this familial genetic disease

may develop when you are in your forties or fifties

In case of the disease

In the end, he will definitely die in about

dozens of weeks.

But he may not get sick. Really

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Yes

But if it is detected

In the end

Either the disease

or not

As long as the disease occurs, it will definitely be out

Yes

In this case, you decide

You will definitely

You will definitely get tested

You need to know

You are so courageous

What do you mean

I really don’t understand

Why

Will have that ostrich mentality

No, in fact, in this story

In fact, there are many people

He chose not to be tested

Why

Because he will have a kind of pressure

That is, I may have a

similar terminal illness

I don’t know if it will happen

So they will think

I have been young

I want to live a very conscientious life

Okay then why do I ask this question

About a hundred years ago

There used to be a disease called

Fatal familial insomnia

It is a genetic disease

Then it is a mutation of the

protein in the brain

What about the mutation of this protein

Because it contains the gene

And then pass it on

The most typical one is

when he is about 40 to 60 years old

It is possible that the disease will occur

Once the disease occurs

it will become more and more difficult for him to sleep

In the later stage, he will not be able to sleep at all

Then when he is unable to sleep at all

he will also have a kind of night sweats

just sweat all the time

Then the weight keeps getting thinner

Then what happens in the end

is until he dies

So

we start from this

familial fatal insomnia

You can see that

there will be a very similar situation to the animal experiment we just talked about

...

that is, you don't sleep

In the end

you will have a caloric imbalance.

Okay, that's why

I will tell you

Why sleep

Because we

actually do a lot of work during the day

After you do so much work

you always have time

to let your entire system

and then let it do a reorganization

That health

Or the heat balance we just talked about

This is probably

the most basic

and is related to survival

The other

actually has some more detailed ones

For example, when our brain is in the daytime

you are constantly using your brain

When our brain uses energy

it will produce some metabolites

Those metabolites accumulate in your brain

After a long time

Your brain is getting dirtier

So when we sleep

you will be the most efficient

Get rid of these metabolites you produce during the day

Clear them

So imagine

it is very similar to

when you are very busy

your studio

your room

your office will be very messy

Then wait until this period of time is finally over

Then clean it well

Clean it a little bit

A little bit cleaner

Your work efficiency will be better

Then our brain

is actually similar to this mechanism

You just mess it up during the day

At night

Clean it well

After cleaning it

You will do it the next day

You can start the most efficiently

So the two

just mentioned are probably

We can use it to understand

one of the main reasons why we must sleep

In terms of survival mechanism

it is a necessary condition to help us survive

...

It is a behavior

Then our

For example, high efficiency

As far as our cognition

As far as our emotions are concerned,

it helps to make all our

behaviors during the day

Make a reset

I usually say

Just imagine before

You used the old Windows

After using it for a long time

Will you become slower and slower

The system will become more and more stuck

So what should I do at this time

Just reboot

Don't you need some kind of disk reorganization

I remember

This is similar

Disk reorganization is usually

What kind of cleanup

Anyway, it just clears some

Cookies

Right

Then this is a bit similar

We are talking about the memory system

When we sleep

the brain will keep the memories during the day

It judges that the memories are needed

Delete the unnecessary memories

Then combine them with the past memories

Then this is a bit similar

The disk reorganization you talked about

Although I answered you at the beginning

What will happen if you don’t sleep

You will die

It sounds serious

But it is

If we look at it from the perspective of evolution

you will find that

all living things sleep

all

even single cells

Sorry

I have to correct

plants

do you know

I used to

when I was writing a thesis

I once wrote this sentence

That's the same

You are like my advisor

My supervisor stared at me and said

All

Can you prove everything

Okay Most of them

I just wanted to ask

How primitive a creature is to begin with

It feels like it is more complicated to sleep

We have to mention this again

Can insects sleep

What is the concept of sleep

For example, let's take fruit flies.

Do you think fruit flies can sleep?

This question sounds like yes.

But the sleep of fruit flies

is actually different from what we

currently recognize as sleep.

Because we are talking about

and the core is talking about the function of sleep.

Since mammals,

before that, we would say that it has behavior close to sleep.

...

For example, how do we know that

this fruit fly is sleeping

Well, ideally

If the fruit fly stops in one place

Then you shake it a little

If it wakes up and shakes a little

it should fly away quickly

Under normal circumstances

the fruit fly will not stop in one place for a long time

So the researcher will judge that

In the 24-hour record of a day

It is during the day

If it is obviously more active

At night it is less active

If it vibrates slightly, it does not move much

Okay, then we will judge

The period when it does not move much

It is similar to a state of sleep

You just mentioned blue-green algae, for example

Yes

Will blue-green algae sleep?

This involves what we just talked about

In fact, the behavior of fruit flies

We can understand it as a kind of biological clock

It is an organism

Most organisms

must have this type

It has a fixed period of activity

and a period of inactivity

The native algae of blue-green algae

actually has a cycle of 24 hours a day

...

Actually, don’t talk about blue-green algae

It’s like 2019

Nobel Prize in Biomedicine

He explored it

At our molecular level

It actually has this kind of cycle of 24 hours a day

...

In our human cells

Most of the living things we can see

...

mostly have this

phenomenon of changing in a 24-hour cycle

And behind this phenomenon

is probably part activity

and part rest

What about the rest part

It is obvious that it is a big rest

We will understand it as

Behavior similar to human sleep

Then I want to ask

because I just talked about

the kind of big rest

But

two events in my life

made me come into contact with a

strange sleep mentality

One was when I was in college

Because at that time I felt that

sleep was very annoying

I am a person who needs sleep very much

I can't get enough sleep no matter how much I sleep

Then I feel

it's a bit of a waste of my time

Because I want to have more time

to do more things

So at that time

I had a senior who told me

There is something called the Superman Sleep Method

The Superman Sleep Method means

We usually don't lie down for 15 minutes like lunch break

Will we feel super energetic

It is to break

the sleep you need in a day

into 15 minutes 15 minutes 15 minutes

and then

become a kind of

without a very long sleep

But

I seem to remember it is

You only need to sleep for two hours throughout the day.

You only need to sleep for 15 minutes at a fixed time.

Then get up again.

Then sleep for another 15 minutes.

Because the truth is that

Some organisms are like this too.

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Because this is the second time in my life that I encountered

a very similar experience

It was after I gave birth to a child

The cycle of a child is

Drinking milk and sleeping every three to four hours

Then you wait until he gets up next time

Drinking milk to sleep

So it is not just the child at that time

It follows this cycle

Parents will also follow this cycle

It is somewhat similar

Parents will not become this cycle

Parents will only be in pain

Yes

Parents will only be in pain

Okay, then what you are actually talking about is

Another concept of sleep

It is easy to be misunderstood

Sleep is usually ignored

Another feature

is the biological clock we just talked about

In our organism

Sleep

is determined by two main factors

The first is your sleep pressure

We usually talk about sleep debt

For example, if you don't sleep for 24 hours

your debt will be huge

You are very stressed

Then everyone will think

Okay, then I just need to get rid of the stress

The staged sleep you just talked about

focuses on the stress part

But in addition, the biological clock means

our biology

You have to do the behavior that matches that period at the right time

...

Only then will it be optimally efficient

In terms of humans

Because humans are diurnal animals

So diurnal animals

are active during the day

and rest at night

In other words, if we humans

carry out your behavior in this form

...

its efficiency will be the best

If we think from this perspective

from the perspective of evolution

You can understand

Sleeping at night

Its execution will be the most efficient

Suppose there is a person with a normal schedule today

For example,

your schedule is still the majority

Your biological clock should still sleep at night

But on a certain day

you are forced

to sleep eight hours during the day

Can the eight hours during the day

be offset by the eight hours at night

No

Because of the biological clock

Although you sleep for the same eight hours during the day

But your sleep structure

will be different from doing this at night

If you take a nap during the day

Can it help you refresh

Yes

But in the long run

it can allow you to maintain such a state

Then your brain and your body and mind

won't be affected

The current conclusion is no

If you are an ordinary person

The current conclusion is no

The kind you just talked about

In fact, there are some

in special situations

For example, some of them are doing it abroad.

He wants a single-handed sailboat

Then maybe cross the Atlantic

They may need one person

and then drive the boat

Then maybe drive

It may take hundreds of days

He must be awake all the time

Otherwise he won’t know when he hits the iceberg

In this kind of competition

They have done it

Have they ever used the method you just mentioned?

He just divides the day into twenty minutes

Within twenty minutes

He may take a nap

and then wake up

This can indeed help him survive the competition

But it is not suitable for a lifetime

Yes

Can he continue to do this after landing?

No

Because from those related research findings

His sleep pressure has been accumulating

so he still needs to catch up on sleep

Then I can ask

why it is said that

we are most efficient when we are awake during the day

and sleeping at night

Is it

just because of the sun itself

?

If we talk about the core

It should be a mechanism designed by our diurnal animals

It is like this

The sun

For us humans

For diurnal animals

it has a wake-up-promoting effect

That is to say

As long as you get up in the morning

and you are exposed to the sun

it can help you become more awake

And this subjective sense of being awake

will allow you to perform cognitive functions better

So for example, if you stayed up late the night before

and you feel groggy in the morning

But you have to work right away, what should you do?

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The direct effect of sunlight on us humans

Because there are some people around me

They will turn day and night upside down

Usually more artistic

He is the kind of creator

or a performer

who performs at night

So he probably sleeps during the day

and then gets up to work at night

What impact will these people have on their bodies if they have been

like this for a long time

...

This actually has to be connected to

When we talk about the biological clock

In principle, in the current research

The conclusion of the biological clock is

If you can maintain a stable schedule

then it is basically OK

Because

Since the industrial revolution

electric lights have become popular

and now all the technology

has made our environment

not so absolute day and night

So in this case

current researchers mainly

You can think of it as the next best thing

At least you have to achieve stability

Stability is just like what you just said

If he is a person who goes to bed late and gets up late for a long time

Then he only needs to maintain this rhythm

For example, he may go to bed late and get up late for three days

Then it will become a normal state for three days

This will be chaotic

It is a bit like shift work

So as long as it is stable

Basically

the current consensus is that

it will not have much impact on the body

But to be honest, in the real situation

it is not easy for you to maintain such a schedule

...

Those who continue to work night shifts

are very similar to the situation you just mentioned

But they will still encounter a situation where

I have to take care of my family life.

My child is active during the day

Then should I take the child out

Then should I contact relatives and friends

So he still needs to interact with those people who usually

wake up during the day

and sleep at night

So there will still be a few days when he does not meet the

what he calls the situation of going to bed late and getting up late

I just thought of another example

Maybe it's like that kind of aviation personnel

Then they have to adjust the time difference all the time

Always adjust the time difference

So this is a

not good for the body

No need

It must be

It must be

My doctoral thesis is to study the biological clock

Then the conclusion after completing my doctoral thesis is

Try not to do shift work

But this is not the case

Because of our current society

You said it is impossible without shift work

So usually I will tell you

Don’t do shift work for too long

The research data is probably like this

If you are currently working in shifts

It means that your biological clock is chaotic

Then you suffer from various diseases

Various diseases here

There are all the diseases you can imagine

High blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease

Stroke, etc.

Then your risk of suffering from these diseases will increase

But

if you work for twenty years

Do twenty years of shifts

Then I will not work shifts

I will become normal

Then the risk will decrease again

In other words, at least

when humans are relatively young

we have a certain degree of tolerance to this

situation that goes against our nature

...

But please remember

it is against the design of our genes after all

So if you continue

the risk will continue to rise

Have you observed that at what age

is it almost time to start to stop

Like Boen when you were young

You can also stay up for a long time

Stay up late without sleeping

That's right

It won't be a problem

I can't do it anymore

That's right

I could do it before

But not now

So

Probably according to my tolerance

I think it will be after the age of thirty-five

It will be obvious

The number of unbearable situations will increase significantly

So I will probably say

Okay

Then if you really want to take shifts

you should cut it off for a while

At least if you really want to do it in the future

try to find a fixed shift

better

Yes Foreign studies have actually found that

those who work regular night shifts have better health than those who work three shifts.

Their physical health

is better.

Yes

Why do I know so clearly? Pretty stable rule

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Right But it's different from ordinary people

I only slept once for forty-eight hours at that time

So it was

because I couldn't finish writing

There were too many things

There were too many things to read

And then there were too many things to write

So I slept once every two days

Then I had an accident

at that time and I wanted to confirm this

That's what I suddenly discovered

After I had been sleep deprived for a long time

I don't know why

My mood became happier

It's strange

Because it's counter-intuitive

I know it all

All I learned before is

Sleep deprivation will definitely make your mood worse and worse

But I had one at that time

It seemed like a kind of joy after death

Then I went to check

I Google at that time

sleep deprivation induced euphoria

Then I really found the result

Yes

Then I was scared to death

But like

in recent years

that kind of fitness

or a more popular one among their ethnic groups

...

long-term fasting

Even in the past, everyone also thought that

eating every day

no one can continue for more than five days and seven days

Not eating

But later some studies said

Oh, if you have a long fast

it will be helpful to restore body functions

...

So the question I want to ask is

Is there actually such a thing

That is, you are sleep deprived for a long time

Then your body will know

I can use sleep more efficiently

Is there such a phenomenon

Well, I think this idea is very good

Right

Okay

Let me first add to what you just said

which is

Will lack of sleep make you happier

There is a

treatment for specific severe depression

It is sleep deprivation

There is a group of severe depression

He took medicine but it didn't work.

Nothing worked.

Then tell him not to sleep.

He would have a similar effect. There is a situation where he will be like this

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One possible reason is that your brain will

become more and more arousal

That is, it will become more and more awake

And this more and more awake

will give you more control

Then you can do more and more things

Especially those things that will give you positive feelings

For example, you were writing a script at that time

Then you don't sleep for a long time

and then write more and more vigorously

to enter the flow state

and then feel a sense of accomplishment after finishing writing

wow

you feel so good

This is actually also true for some artists

They are unique

why do you end up in this kind of situation at night

just have to stay up late all the time

Then when I was doing research

I once thought about a hypothesis that

when you stay up late to a certain extent

is it possible that your brain will become more creative

This is actually one of the

one of the views

because

we are studying creativity

The core is that you have to leave

your original framework

you have to break it

But when your brain does not sleep for a long time

It is

Physiologically already failing

Right

So you have to leave the frame

This is called disintegration

Then you will be in a kind of

wow

Unconstrained

Even if you stay longer

it is actually possible to have some delusions or hallucinations

Delusions or hallucinations sound more serious

but you can understand it as

You will be more likely to have

some thoughts or feelings that you would not otherwise have

...

But I want to emphasize again

This is not something that everyone will have

There are some people who will have this situation

So you can understand it as

like what you just said

OK Then I don’t sleep at night

I can not be disturbed

I will enter the flow

And I will be particularly excited when writing scripts

So it will become one of the possibilities for many people to say

I have to stay up late to complete

...

Everyone should have an experience

If we talk about final exam week

Then we stayed up late and read a lot of books

Then the moment I finished all the subjects

I fell asleep very deeply

It’s not that I forgot

Hahahaha

I just forgot

Good teacher

This is something only teachers have

students We don’t care about forgetting or remembering

After all, the exam is over

Yes, yes

It’s just that the sleep after

is very comfortable

Yes

This is sleep pressure

Yes

Because you haven’t slept for a long time

Our body will accumulate sleep pressure

Sleep pressure is in our brain

We have an indicator called

adenosine

Our Chinese name is probably adenosine

That is to say

If you continue not to sleep

your accumulation of adenosine will be more and more

When your adenosine accumulation

becomes more and more, it will form your sleep pressure

And the higher your sleep pressure

you will enter sleep

The so-called deep sleep

The longer it will be

And it will be deeper

Usually when we evaluate deep sleep

, there will be two indicators

One indicator is

how long your deep sleep lasts

It is the quantity

The other indicator

is that we can measure his brain waves

If his brain wave is slow wave

N amplitude

It means the greater the amplitude

That also means that his quality

The quality of deep sleep will be better

So when your sleep pressure is greater

Usually quality follows quantity

He will show

More preference for deep sleep

So people who don’t sleep well are not tired enough?

This

can also be regarded as

One of his possibilities

Yes, but as we just said

In fact,

there are many factors that affect sleep

Yes, I just

This is actually the point that I care about the most

I think

I seem to

have always had a

no matter how long I sleep

there will be a feeling that it is not fully charged

Just like that mobile phone

and then plugged in all night

it is not fully charged

Then

I have a little story recently

that I had an operation recently

So I needed general anesthesia

And during the general anesthesia

I slept so well

Never before

I haven’t slept so well for a long time

And anyway, when I was undergoing surgery

I seemed to be still snoring

while operating

Because my wife was recording me

and

snoring so loudly

Because it was indeed recorded

So

I could hear the doctor

talking to my wife over there

The doctor said

This is how he usually does

Then my wife said yes, it was so noisy

This should be

that one You can buy a

suppressive respirator

I feel that his normal sleep

should not be of good quality

Then

In fact, I have been talking about

I can't sleep well

Others gave me suggestions

It seems that I can test it

to see if there is respiratory arrest

This is actually

One problem that most of us

have

is if you snore

and very loudly

while sleeping, and occasionally it will happen

as if he stops snoring mid-snoring

We usually recommend

some diagnosis

But I want to add something more about the anesthesia you just talked about

...

In fact, there are some studies

They actually use deep anesthesia

to simulate our deep sleep

Because the appropriate

is related to the dose of the anesthetic

and its ingredients

That is, the dose and ingredients of the specific anesthetic

can cause our brain waves

A state similar to slow wave

So there are some animal experiments

He used this anesthesia instead to say

If the organism enters the sleep state

What would it look like

There was once a study

You should probably listen to it

He would say that sleeping on the side is better for our sleep

I only heard that sleeping on the side will not snore

There is nothing wrong with sleeping on the side as less snoring

Well, sleeping on the side is better for sleep

His theory behind it is to use animal experiments

to put the animals into anesthesia

Then he measured the state of brain cleaning

which is the state of clearing away those metabolites

Then he found that under the anesthesia state of sleeping on the side

its removal efficiency will be better

So there are some sayings

Okay, then we should all sleep on our sides

But that’s not the case

Okay

Let’s get back to it

Some people will mistake anesthesia for sleep

For example, some people will go to some medical aesthetic clinics

and ask them to help them with that

kind of sleep

You can do this

Of course not.

But you also know that this world is

some are not good but some people can

It is actually illegal

but some people do do it

There are actually

in foreign countries. Well, this situation will appear

First, he will have an addiction

Because those narcotics

are our neurological drugs

Secondly, those will make you cause that kind of

The state of deep unconsciousness

In fact, what you just described is another

We have a very interesting feeling about sleep

Think about it

In fact, humans really don’t know

what it feels like after sleeping

It is an evaluation after waking up

So we always feel that

if I lose consciousness

I completely lose consciousness

That means I slept well

That's right

Right, so you just said it

You are in anesthesia

Although your brain waves also have slow waves

But you feel

I completely lost consciousness for a while

It feels so good

It feels like sleeping

But it is not

I just want to explain to everyone

Never use this technique

I thought you seemed to be really sleeping

Actually, it's really not

But I raise my hand again and ask

It's the family I mentioned at the beginning

...

Then fatal

Yes, fatal insomnia

Can't they use drugs

to make them sleep

The current situation is

Because he is in the brain

The system that controls his sleep and wakefulness

has been completely destroyed

So even if he takes drugs

his brain still cannot function normally

Of course it can

The situation you just mentioned

is a bit relieved

But his damage

will definitely become more and more serious

So he will end up with the same ending

In fact, it is the same

Just like we do animal experiments

Animal experiments, for example, mice don't sleep

Is there any way we can delay it?

Yes

We let it eat high-calorie food

High-calorie food mice can live longer

Because we just said that it will have a caloric imbalance

and will keep losing weight

So you only need to give it high-calorie food

He will live longer

This is also very interesting

because it is very similar to everyone's experience of staying up late

That is, you will be very hungry

in the middle of the night and will want to eat

In fact, to a certain extent

you can also regard sleep

or lack of sleep

as a kind of stress

We evolved

when you are under pressure

You will do several actions

The first one is of course to accumulate energy

So you should be resting at night

But you are not resting

You will be alert to a certain extent

Is there an enemy coming?

So I have to reserve energy

So when I can eat

Of course I try to eat as much as possible

Research also found that you are eating late night snacks

You will especially like to choose high-calorie foods

Compared with normal times

Right

If we judge this from the evolution we just talked about

...

This is a state of stress

So you have to choose high-calorie foods

This sounds very reasonable

So I will try not to go to bed too late

Because you don’t let your brain

Falling into that wrong cognition

That's right

It's really hard for you to challenge your brain like this

...

Understand

Because we just talked about adenosine

Then deep sleep and these things

The question I want to ask is

What are the reasons why we

cannot enter deep sleep

Like respiratory arrest

It is a

What is the cause

Just

Why do some people do this

We can understand

Our sleep still goes from light to deep

That from light to deep

In addition to your brain

Your muscles will become more and more relaxed

The core reason why breathing is suspended

Your respiratory tract will be blocked

When you lie on your back

You may have this side of your neck

Or which side of your respiratory tract is narrower

Because your muscle tension is relaxed

so it will collapse

So you can imagine our respiratory tract

It is originally a relatively elastic tube

Then wait until you go to bed at night

It may become less elastic

Then there will be some weight on it

Then press it down

Because your muscles are relaxed

Then press it down

Then it gets clogged

Our brain

For example, when you first start sleeping

It's okay

It's not blocked yet

Slowly getting more and more blocked

Once it gets blocked

Your blood oxygen concentration will drop

If the blood oxygen concentration drops, you will die

So your brain will wake you up

So it will form

You originally went from shallow to deep

But when you are deep, you will be blocked

So before you reach deep

, the brain will wake you up

Then wake you up and you will go back to shallow

Then shallow and then deep

Then wake up again

So those with severe

sleep apnea

will have almost no deep sleep

Then there will be almost no deep sleep

The impact will be very, very large

Therefore, clinical studies have also found that

if that kind of case of sleep apnea

he is at risk of suffering from various chronic diseases

I want to repeat it again

Stroke, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypertension

As long as you can imagine those chronic diseases

, it will be significantly increased in cases of sleep apnea

...

So we usually

If the person I am giving a speech to

is a man over 40 years old and obese

As long as we combine these three

we will say

You evaluate whether he snores at night

Is it very loud

Wait a minute, obesity is related to

because of all the heat regulation just mentioned

So he will gradually start to gain weight

Because there is a kind of stuffing

because for example, his neck

may have a lot of fat

You can also imagine it when you are lying down

He will press it down completely

and then it will be stuffed

When facing men

We will talk about this more

Wait a minute

I just heard a key point

What about women

Women don’t snore

Her risk of sleep apnea

She is indeed significantly lower

Is it gender discrimination or something?

There used to be some claims that

it is related to estrogen

But I haven’t updated this since

so I’m not sure

When I was studying

I saw a saying

Estrogen is in the body

Indeed, on many levels

there is some protection for women

We have also seen that

after menopause

many of her risks

will actually increase

This was a statement I understood at the time

But where is the current research

I don’t know much

Because about gender hormones

I only studied it when I was studying

Understand

Then I just heard a keyword is

adenosine

What is my impression of this word

It is related to coffee

Yes, yes, yes

Sure enough, I study Neuroscience

I really want to ask today

That is

Certain substances that can affect sleep

Like coffee

Then

In fact

I wasn't that into magnesium before

I just didn't see that much magnesium

Then in recent years

a lot of people have told us to eat magnesium

What is it

Why

I also feel that everyone

needs to eat a lot of things now

In addition to magnesium,

what other fish oils are there?

Many things

Well, the first one is

Adenosine

It is produced naturally by our body

When you are awake

The brain

You can think of it as a metabolite

So when our brain is awake

It is because it is constantly working

So it does have various metabolites

What is special about adenosine is that

the more it accumulates

it will make your brain not want to work

and make your brain go on strike

and you will want to sleep

And caffeine

The structural formula of caffeine itself

is very similar to adenosine

So if you drink coffee

For example, you may not have slept for 24 hours.

So you have a lot of adenosine.

That means a lot of adenosine.

Adenosine must be combined with receptors

It will produce a drowsy effect

What about caffeine if you eat it

It will occupy the hair pit and stop pooping

It will combine with adenosine receptors

But it will not have any effect

This is why if you drink caffeine

it can keep you awake for a period of time

This is the most important element

But what about

Your caffeine occupies the hair pit and you can't poop

But adenosine is still being produced

and accumulating

So if you continue not to sleep

your caffeine must be replenished all the time

Because the half-life of caffeine

In terms of normal humans

is about 4 to 6 hours

What is its tolerance

It means that our receptors will keep increasing, right?

Adenosine receptors

Adenosine will continue to accumulate

That receptor is fixed

But

the time that caffeine occupies it is fixed

It cannot occupy it forever

Because it will disappear after a period of time

It has a half-life

It will be metabolized

Then why do people talk about drinking coffee

and the more you drink it, the less effective it becomes

This is related to tolerance

But this part may involve

the knowledge of caffeine

I used to

I was going to a place where we were talking about coffee

Let’s talk about what we just talked about

Then someone who knows coffee very well told me

If it is really good coffee

it will not affect sleep

Then I was very unable to understand

What is really good coffee

What we just understood is

The structure of caffeine itself is very similar to adenosine

Right

So as long as it has this structure of caffeine

it will definitely have an impact

So the difference is

The degree of caffeine in this coffee

Right

The difference between more and less

There are indeed different coffee beans

and different roasting methods

which will affect its composition

So my understanding is

some coffee can have less caffeine if you

brew it properly

...

This is my understanding

That's bad coffee

I drink coffee to wake up

not for the taste

Yes, it depends on whether you need coffee

Do you need caffeine

or the taste of coffee

Then if I drink coffee during the day in order to sleep deeper

...

so that I can crash before going to bed

my body will collapse

All the adenosine rushes in

Is it easier for me to enter deep sleep

In fact, I think this method is not that

Not that effective

In theory

In theory

I thought it was OK

In fact, instead of this

you can do something simpler

For example, you can do more activities during the day

The other one is to expose yourself to more light during the day

In fact, modern people often ignore the effect of sunlight

on our sleep

The effect of sunlight

The first one is that it can make our biological clock

more stable

As we just said

our organism is stable

This pattern of waking up during the day and sleeping at night

So you only need to make this pattern more obvious

The more obvious means

For example, there are some office workers

who are in the building during the day

Then he may order delivery at noon

Then when he gets off work, it may be

dark or dusk

So for him

you can imagine that the time he really gets sunlight is very short

...

For example, our studio is very dark now

We only have this kind of photography light

So if you shoot here all day

...

you will have very, very little light today

On the other hand, if someone is out for a day

For example, at least he will be outside for more than two hours

Maybe more than two hours

Then these two types of people

The light he receives during the day

Sunlight is different

Different will affect

his secretion of melatonin at night

You can also understand melatonin

It is one of our neurohormones that helps you start sleep more easily

...

Apply what we just said

As long as you have moderate light exposure during the day

That helps your melatonin to be secreted more easily at night

...

It is easier to secrete

and it is easier for you to enter

What we just talked about

It’s good to fall asleep

Or enter a deeper sleep

That’s why I say that instead of using coffee

that way

you might as well go to the light

It’s actually a simpler method

I’m also quite curious about melatonin

That’s

because it’s not sold in Taiwan

Is it sold in Taiwan

Taiwan has a prescription

You have to go to a doctor

OK

But it is OK if you bring it back from abroad

It seems to be

I remember it is

Yes

Because

Basically every time I go to the United States

I will buy melatonin

Yes

Is it effective for you?

It is effective for me

It is very effective

But my wife took it but it didn’t work

So when should you take it

before going to bed?

Do you take it before going to bed

In fact, generally speaking

if we are

and you are really using melatonin

it is probably an hour before going to bed

Its use time will be a little earlier than

Generally taking sleeping pills

Yes Because melatonin

we will think of it as

it lets your body know that it is night now

So it is an indirect effect

It does not directly promote your sleep

We can imagine that

organisms

diurnal animals sleep like this

You must first know that it is night now

Then first know that it is night now

Relax slowly and slowly

Then enter the sleep state

So melatonin lets you know

It's night now

It's the prelude to sleep

That sleeping pill

It acts directly on your brain

The mechanisms related to falling asleep

So it is taken before going to bed

So this is something we don't know much about

If you have insomnia

Unless you are that kind

It has to do with biological clocks, jet lag, etc.

These influential people

otherwise would not directly recommend taking melatonin

Then there is another reason why it is not effective

For example, many people

It may be due to stress

The pressure here

No, my wife should not have any stress

But there is another one

Then please ask

Is my wife someone who thinks too much

Probably not

Probably not

Then what is the most likely cause of your observation

I think she moves too little

Then will she use 3C at night

Calculate

Computer TV Mobile phone

Yes TV

Then we can connect this again

We just talked about the biological clock and lighting

Just now we talked about daytime light

It can make your biological clock more stable

Then there is another one is daytime light

If you light it for a long time

and then the intensity is relatively high

It also has another effect

It can offset the effect of using 3C at night on melatonin suppression

...

Yes. You also know that you use 3C at night

This light will inhibit your melatonin

This is an inherent inhibitory effect

And this inhibitory effect

is a comparative concept in the human body

...

That is to say, if you shine very strongly

and have a relatively large amount of light during the day

then the impact of this mobile phone on you at night

will be smaller

because you can imagine

When you are outdoors, it is more than 10,000 lux

Then the light on your mobile phone or indoors

is about 300 to 500

So in this case

your entire body's biological clock

will be in a relatively stable state

Your melatonin suppression will be less

But suppose there are some people

who don't go out much during the day

So he doesn't get much light

and he doesn't move much

Then his biological clock

We would say that he is in a comparative state

Not obvious

Our normal situation is

The more active you are during the day, the better

The less active you are at night, the better

But if your activities

during the day and at night are similar

then his biological clock is not obvious

His secretion of melatonin

will be relatively gentle

So this is why we recommend

just those elders

Because some elders

may also have difficulty moving

But even if you have difficulty moving

you

still need to go out to get some light during the day

or do some activities

Because this way your biological clock

will be in a stable state

Your sleep at night

The secretion of melatonin will be stable

How long should the light be used?

Or

What to do on a cloudy day

Or if it’s sunny

Can I only do it for five minutes?

For suggestions for stabilizing the biological clock

Probably at least 30 minutes

A long time

30 minutes of light

You don’t need to be exposed to the sun

For example, you can hold an umbrella

You can be under the shade of a tree

You can be under the arcade

The light received

Flashes

Because light will flash

The light you receive

probably has thousands or at least tens of thousands of lux

The light of our general office

If our office has fluorescent lamps

That's only about 300-500 lux

So you can compare

the difference in intensity

It's actually very big

But for us humans

In fact, for the light intensity of 500 and 5000 lux

you are not so obvious

You are oh, it is brighter

But you won't think it is ten times brighter

Therefore, many modern people suffer from insomnia

One of the factors is

Anyway, I have light all day long

But the light is indoor artificial light source

The frequency band of artificial light source is different from that of sunlight source

...

So its effect on stabilizing our biological clock

will be different

This was actually more obvious during the epidemic in 2020

...

You can't go out because of the epidemic

You will be locked at home all day

Then at that time, the epidemic was stressful

Then there was this problem of the biological clock

So there were very, very many people who couldn't sleep well

...

Exercise is good for sleep, right

Very good

So far

If I go out to give lectures

If someone asks the teacher, I can't sleep well

How can you help me sleep better

Then you also know

In fact, there are hundreds of reasons for not sleeping well

So far,

there are probably two types that can be recommended

One is exercise

An integrated analysis of exercise in various items

And each

its approximate effect is positive

But

It has a premise

It is best to exercise during the day

Apply what we just said

Humans are self-motivated animals

So you can exercise during the day

It can just make your biological clock

more stable and stronger

What if

but it is not possible

I have to go to work during the day

What should I do if I can only exercise at night?

Usually our advice is

It is better to exercise than not to exercise

So the first

If you really can only exercise at night

you still have to exercise

The second

is the best time for you to exercise

Three hours before your sleep time

This comes from

Because we exercise

you will have sympathetic nerves working

Then your sympathetic nerve function

changes to a more arousal state

You need time to let it come down

So the closer this period is to the time you fall asleep

the greater the impact it will have on your sleep

Of course, this will be related to your age

Boen, most of your audience should be young

Not necessarily

It is a normal distribution with me as the middle

Yes, yes,

Yes, the younger ones

They will be affected by this

In fact, it will be smaller

Because everyone is actually young

When I was in college

We only came to practice team practice at ten o'clock in the evening

We finished practice

I can still sleep when I go back

Then many people say

You are not tired enough if you can't sleep

You hurry up and exercise

Yes, so exercise makes you more tired

Then you will sleep better

Such a point of view

If it is to be completely established

It must be during the day

If it is at night

It will have other factors

For example, age

The intensity of your exercise

The time of exercise, etc.

There will be other factors added

Understand

I think it is a bit connected

The Superman sleep method

What I care about most is individual differences

Because I will be very jealous

People who don’t need sleep very much

Then

Right

No

My time in this world is short enough

Why spend a third of my time

in simulated death

That's

Have you ever imagined

If one day

I really have some technological methods

so that you don't have to sleep

Do you think you are happy

Very happy

I want to quote

the famous book

Inside Fullmetal Alchemist

OK

Equivalent exchange

Alphonse Elric

What he said

Have you seen that one

Yes

Because he turned into armor

There is no need to sleep

He said

When everyone is sleeping and I wake up alone

I am very sad

I am very lonely

That is when he does not have to sleep at night

In fact, he is very lonely

That is really his problem

There are many things that can be done

Good He doesn't have a short video to slide

So what you said is fine

Okay

Then can you not sleep

In fact, there are many opinions about this matter

...

I recently

When I went to a place to give a speech

there was an audience

The audience

looked like he was in his seventies

He told me

that he only needs fifteen minutes of sleep a day

Then I said

Really

You have been like this since you were a child

Yes He said he had slept very little since he was a child

and other people who knew him

also agreed on the spot

saying that he really slept very little

This is because there is no way to do experiments

so I don’t know

Okay This is the first example.

What about the second one?

Is it possible?

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

But those people with short sleep genes

Their average value is about five

That is to say, their range

is from four to six

Related to sleep

There is a DEC2

This gene

He found that their family

If it is inherited on this gene

If there is a mutation

They really don't need to sleep a lot

What about the other one?

When this gene was first discovered,

some media called it the

elite gene.

Oh,

yes,

because it has this gene mutation. It means that you talk on the phone

...

...

...

...

...

...

and do other things at the same time

He may do it faster if he switches on the attention

...

This is what the media said at the time

As for this short sleep gene

His subsequent research so far

There are about four to five different genes

that can have similar effects

But

is it shorter

So far

Scientific practice has not found a shorter time.

It is really done through research.

In humans, it is about four to six.

Those people with short sleep genes

They have all slept very little since childhood.

...

...

...

...

...

As we humans age

our sleep efficiency will become worse

The short sleep gene

It can show a characteristic

That is

this type of person

His sleep efficiency

is even better than that of ordinary people

So now scientists want to know

his entire mechanism

How does it work

Is it possible to replicate

Now it can be replicated in animal experiments

Then if it is possible

Can it be replicated in humans

Yes So this is the current short sleep gene

that most wants to be operated

I just wanted to ask a question

because I didn't just say that

there was an old man in his seventies

who only sleeps fifteen minutes a day

But our

general impression of the elderly

is that they are not sleeping

not

because the old man

Still go to bed early and get up early

Anyway, they are old people

Is there a tendency for people to sleep less as they live older

...

From a normal perspective

So far, it is believed that

aging has little influence on his sleep hours

Just how long he has to sleep

...

The current international consensus is that

Even if you are over sixty-five years old

You must sleep at least

about seven hours a day

Why does that impression form

The first

Because when we age

our sleep at night will advance

That is, the biological clock will move forward a little

The second

I want to modify a statement

It is for older people

Then his ability to maintain long sleep

will be poor

because of the bladder

Yes

It should be said that many people will have heard of it

That is

For example

He may go to bed at ten o'clock

Then he may wake up in the middle of the night

Maybe at three o'clock

He no longer looks like he was when he was young

Can sleep for eight hours at a time

OK Well, this is actually because our ability to sleep for a long time becomes worse after we get older.

But it's not because he doesn't need it.

...

So some studies will find that

Look at some elders.

Although they may sleep very little at night,

but sit there and watch TV during the day.

It's easy to fall asleep.

Then sit there and watch TV during the day.

It's easy to fall asleep.

What does it mean?

It means sleepiness.

His sleep pressure is high.

We think that elders don’t need to sleep.

But they are in a state of high sleepiness.

...

...

...

...

...

When I was young

I could sleep for ten hours at a time

But now I sleep about seven hours

or even less before I wake up

I was just thinking

if it might be

because as we get older

sleep naturally decreases

leading to their energy imbalance

Then humans will slowly

move towards

But it doesn't sound like that

OK

Let's go back and ask again

It's the person who studied the short sleep gene

Then their body

may have a certain mechanism

Or it can synthesize a certain protein

so that it can remove waste more efficiently

Then if we find out

what that thing is

How will it be applied in practice

Could it be taking a certain supplement

In fact, the most likely possibility of genetic programming is

adjustment through gene editing

...

This is my current imagination

Because you also know

There are some gene editing technologies now

So if

it is a hundred years later

We have really located which genes

It's like this

Then we can really

do it through gene editing

Then such an operation

may be possible

But people who have been born are already hopeless

Right? It can only be the fertilized egg

Then we have to see how far the gene editing technology can go

...

My understanding of genes is

As you grow

you can still modify the genes to a certain extent

...

This is the current view of epigenetics

So how far can this modification go

Or how far can our gene editing

go?

I don't know this

But according to the current human race

I want it very much

But I still have to explain

In fact, the current research on short sleep genes

is actually quite new

Because

I remember the first research at that time

It seems to be 2019

That really

also progressed very quickly

But in fact, our human technology

is usually like this

You will see its positive effects in front of you

But the negative effects

usually appear after a period of time

So after it has been modified like this

What will be the impact on us humans individually

Or the overall impact

What will it look like

I don’t know

Then I want to talk about dreams at the end

Because I feel that dreams are

and they can also happen in sleep

But there is another whole big branch

Dreams

We just had a chat before we started recording

Do dreams have meaning

This sentence is very provoking

Do dreams have meaning

This matter

From my point of view as a rather biased

brain scientist

Ah, just discharge

The way it can make sense depends on

your interpretation of it

It’s not about the dream itself

Because our brains will naturally remember our internal

past memories

present memories

It will have some weighting

That is, if there are some things that are more important to you

it will make the connection of its

memories deeper

And dreaming at night

The act of dreaming

If viewed from the perspective of brain science

It is a phenomenon

and this phenomenon lies in the activation of specific areas of your brain

...

Especially the sensory association area

Because the side of our brain is the temporoparietal junction

Then you have an area that connects feelings

and actions

and your past memories

Then when you sleep at night

Your brain area in this area

It is stimulated under specific circumstances

In other words,

it will stimulate a lot

with feelings, actions, feelings

Brain areas related to memory

Then the so-called dream feeling

and this dream feeling

If you interpret it through people

you may have some insights

It is comprehension.

It turns out that it is like this

Because

The so-called psychotherapy

Or the so-called meaning

One of its core elements is

Do you accept it

Wait a minute

But what I wanted to ask just now is

What is its physiological meaning

Dreams help eliminate this doubt

Let me help consolidate

Let me give you an example

The nightmare I have had very often recently

This is true

I have this nightmare very often

I will dream that I am on the battlefield

Already at war

Then a bullet will just

hit my chest

Everyone should have the kind of

where things are about to end

Just hypothermia all over the body

Then it's over, over, over

I want to die here

It's over, over

I don't want to die

I don't want to die

Snap and wake up

Because this is a nightmare

Repeat this dream several times

PTSD

Why should it be consolidated

or

It doesn't seem to be helping to rule out

this

There is a saying that

dreams do, to a certain extent,

help us practice

practicing what may happen to you

a bad experience

or a bad event

so that

more dangerous situation appears in the dream

Another way of saying is

When your negative experience

is the emotional experience

or the accumulated

experience is too powerful

it will get stuck there

and continue to stay there

There was a study a few years ago

He said that this type of people will have recurring dreams

In his brain at night

About the secretion of adrenaline

He will still show a

relatively non-stop state

because the adrenaline in our brain

should be static at night

Especially during REM sleep

it should be almost absent

But for this type of person

he will still secrete it to a certain extent at night

...

In other words, your brain should relax

Your brain should forget

You need war

Need to escape that thing

But it still exists

I think this is very interesting

Because growing up

I will feel that I rarely dream

But whenever I dream, it must be a nightmare

I almost never had good dreams

And then it was all this kind of tension

For example, during that student period

I always have a dream that

I can’t finish the exam

Then I have to hand in the paper

Then I do poorly in the exam

This is my extraordinary nightmare

Almost after I graduated

5, 6, 7, 8 years

I am still having this nightmare

That trauma

Yes This traumatic experience is very strong

This is also the traumatic experience after growing up that is unique to many academics

...

In fact, we need to clarify it again

In fact, you are talking about the dream you remember

Because the dream and the dream you remember

are actually two different things

We are at night

You will have about 4 to 5 times of REM sleep

The study will find that you probably

as long as you wake up in REM sleep

you will have about 70% to 80% of your dreams

In other words, one night

On average there should be 3 to 4 dreams

So the difference is whether you remember or not

Then why do you remember

One of the reasons is

You wake up after you dream

That's why you remember

Then why do you wake up

One part is

That is your last dream

Just because you will get closer and closer to the early morning

What about the last dream

It is in our entire sleep structure.

Another feature

is that

the closer you are to the dream state in the second half of sleep

the stronger its emotionality

and the weirder the plot will be

the weirder it will be

so

most likely if you have a dream

in the later period

and its emotional tension will be high.

It’s easier to remember when you wake up

In response to your question

The simpler answer is

It’s not that you didn’t have a good dream

It’s just that the good dreams are not strong enough for you to remember

Why can’t I have a very strong good dream

Yes This is what makes human beings very hard

It is related to the mechanism of our entire organism

Because living organisms are inherently concerned with negative events

He will pay more attention

Because negativity is related to survival

Your erotic dreams have nothing to do with your survival

Dreaming about erotic things just makes you happy

But bad dreams

Those survival-related dreams

are related to your survival

So I think many things

are designed towards such a mechanism

So when you are sleeping

the stronger the negative emotion

it will actually affect your physiology to a certain extent

For example, if you are hit in a dream

then your heartbeat

will actually become faster

Have you seen the full-scale startup

What is mentioned in the full-scale startup

If the person in your dream is hit

Or you really died in your dream

Then you will also die in real life

This is actually to a certain extent

Your physiology will be connected with your dream

Yes, so in this case

If you have a strong negative experience emotion

it will easily make you arousal

Then arousal will make you wake up easily

When you wake up, you will remember

About that kind of all human beings

Almost everyone has a common dream

It is how psychology explains it

For example, falling from a very high place

Have you ever had this dream?

It should be said that this type of dream

Swimming in the sea

Then wakes up and wets the bed

This kind of

Wetting the bed in the sea

It's best if it's just me

Have you ever had these dreams

You didn’t come from a very high place

Keep falling and falling

Very few

I have very few

It should be said that if we interpret it based on human experience

He seems to be mostly related to his pressure

and the entire imbalance he has recently created

The imbalance in life

As for what you just said about swimming in the sea

Then the matter of bedwetting

This is actually what we talked about earlier

Your physical feelings in the dream

will be connected to your dream

Yes

Because when your bladder becomes more and more full

Your body will give you a message

Water-related messages

Information related to wanting to pee

So this message is to a certain extent

Will enter your dream

Then he peed in the dream

He also peed on the real bed

Yes So this comparison is

the physiological signal of your real body

and then enters the dream

And there are actually some studies on this

It is the external environment

He can also enter the dream

For example, there was a study

He would let people sleep there

and then detect their entry into REM sleep

Then sprinkle water on his face

Just use that kind of shower

Just use the foggy kind of water

Then he discovered

If he does this

About 42% of people

You wake him up

Just sweep the water and wake him up for a while

Ask him what dream you just had

He will say that there is the element of water in his dream

Just like for example

I originally dreamed that I was recording with Bowen

Then suddenly I don’t know why

The studio sprayed water

That’s

Originally there was no water in the dream

But after you do this operation

the water element will run in

This is similar to starting the movie

So

this is actually some

research on dreams.

Knowing internal and external messages

will affect the content of dreams

Then some people will use this method to operate

Didn’t you just say that

I really want to have a good dream

There are also some sayings that

There is specific music

Give him chocolate

Chocolate

It may not be easy during sleep

Because there are more operations during sleep

Can use smell and sound

There are some theories that it is specific music

played during REM sleep

It enters your dream through this music

It is easier for you to have a good dream

But there is no consensus on this so far

There is no consensus in research

It is more of a commercial statement

And this statement sounds like it makes sense to you

...

Because the music enters the dream

The sound will enter the dream

But

does it have such a great influence on our so-called good dreams

...

This may be another issue

I will ask a question first

and then ask a related one

A question that may be more controversial

is that I have a friend

Then he seemed to run to read

It should be Freud's stuff about dreams

I seem to have read that

this dream

is relatively shallow

In other words,

requires the use of more complex reasoning

or the concept of conditional clauses

will not appear in dreams

You will not have a dream

Then for example

What if tomorrow

What will happen to me

There is no such situation

I said Oh, right

Then I went back and observed for a while

Then I found that

Oh no

My dreams still have this hypothetical tone

But what I am curious about is

What we know now

The brain areas involved in dreams

Is it really lower cognition?

There was once a study like this

It put people to sleep

and then used brain waves of a specific frequency

using the method of transcranial magnetic stimulation

and then hit it in the same way

probably at the junction of the parietal lobe and the temporal lobe

As we just talked about

the sensory-motor joint area

and then through frequency stimulation

It can give you the feeling of a dream

And no matter which sleep stage you are in

You can also do it in REM sleep

You are in non-REM sleep

I just need to hit it

You will have the feeling of a dream

You can also imagine

If you just hit this place

It is indeed related to those memories

Feeling

Kinesthetic related

In addition, the logical reasoning you just talked about

is mostly in the prefrontal lobe

Well, some studies have indeed found that

in dreams

The main one that is active

is what we just talked about

Compare the junction of the parietal lobe and the temporal lobe

There are some people whose prefrontal lobe

It will also be slightly active

If you are more active in the prefrontal lobe

In fact, your ability to

the logical reasoning we just talked about

and even self-awareness

will be stronger in comparison

Then I will mention this

There is a rather special kind of dream

Lucid dream

Lucid Dream

You once knew in a dream

Are you dreaming

Yes, yes,

There have been

Yes, yes

Yes, there is some research on that

He just wants to know

What is the difference between knowing that you are dreaming in a dream

and not knowing that you are dreaming in a dream

Then his conclusion is

those who have lucid dreams in their dreams

His prefrontal lobe will be significantly more active

Of course, the temporoparietal junction is also the place

If we use a simpler version to explain

The reason why you have lucid dreams

is that your brain's prefrontal lobe

and certain dreaming brain areas

are more active than the average person

On the contrary, it is

The area of your brain that should be relaxed is not relaxed

So you are more likely to be in a dream

You can know that you are dreaming

Even you can control your dreams

Yes, because advanced ones can control dreams

You can even dream within a dream

The issue of dreams within dreams

Let's go back and talk

For example, from the perspective of Jung or Freud

Do dreams have meaning?

Then I would like to know

Do your so-called dreams have meaning?

What kind of dream does it include?

A dream in which you don’t know you are dreaming.

A dream that you know you are dreaming

Then a dream that you know you are dreaming has something to do with it

You know you are dreaming

But can you control it

Yes

If you can control

Are dreams you can control meaningful

Is that still called a dream

Yes

It feels like you are already awake

Which dream within a dream is meaningful?

And what we just talked about

Our external messages

can affect the content of your dreams

Right

Well, if you are affected

Is this dream meaningful

How should you interpret it

Yes So this is from the perspective of neuroscience

We can see many different aspects of dreams

The manifestation of dreams has very diverse forms

Maybe

Maybe some

Through our interpretation after waking up

It does show some aspects of the subconscious

But does it also show some aspects of the subconscious

From my current point of view

If we put all the current operating methods

into it

it is actually one

It is difficult to say how meaningful it is

Okay

Let's talk about another

researcher on the science of dreaming

They actually have to define

what is a dream

What do they define

For example, everyone thinks

if you

have a picture drifting past

then the picture floats past for only two or three seconds

A still picture

Is this a dream

No

Right

Then if a thought floats over

Is this a dream

Probably not

Then if in the dream you feel that you have experienced something

but there is no strong emotion

For example, if you are writing in a dream

You have no picture

You will feel that you are writing.

Is this a dream

It should be

What kind of feeling is called a dream

So in the end there is a group of dreaming scientists

Their definition is like this

In dreams

You must have a certain degree of emotion

Then its plot must be a little weird

Or in an obviously realistic situation

That is, you can't just have some thoughts floating over.

The picture floats past

This does not count

Right

Okay, let me talk about this

In fact, I also want to let everyone know

During sleep

Those phenomena that you have similar to

Consciousness expression

It is not just dreaming and non-dreaming

It is not so single

It is more like a spectrum

There are some very complex ones

It may have strong emotions

Weird plot

But go this way

It might be an ordinary plot

No emotion

Go a little further this way

It might just be a picture

Go a little further this way

It might just have one idea

So

Where do you want your so-called dream to be?

Then it is meaningful

My current point of view is this

If it is that kind of

your naturally occurring dream

Then you wake up and still remember

Even what you just said

has a recurring meaning

I think this is indeed important to us people

...

Dreams are very much like the beginning of the brain.

You may be randomly stimulated.

In that random stimulation,

there may be some clues connected to

your past or your current situation.

Some important experiences in the recent period.

or important emotional experiences.

...

...

...

I will interpret it as

such an emotional experience or memory

For me as a person

For my brain

It is to judge its importance

I try to interpret

What is the relationship between the memory behind my recent life

and my past life context

Then if I can evaluate it correctly

I might know and say

Oh, so

something is going on

My conscious mind may have been trying to ignore it

Then if

can really give me such a reminder

Then I will say

Oh okay

Then my subconscious tells me

I should do this

So I am willing

to listen to my insight

Please note that this insight

is still the insight you interpret

I am willing to listen to the insight I interpret

Make some changes

Okay I just think

Because I just emphasized that

it is still a layer of meaning after your own interpretation

...

So for me,

this stimulation

is the same as anything you hear a song

or you see

If you hear a song

the lyrics will be written into your heart

and then say

I never knew I valued this matter so much

Its meaning seems to be the same as the meaning of dreams

To me

It won't be the same

Because dreams are created by you

Well

Because you do hear the song

and you will have some insights

Just because this song

may affect a certain memory of yours

or affect a certain feeling of yours

That's why you appear

The touch you just mentioned

or insight

The difference between dreams and songs is

it is more like the message that appears in your brain

...

It is not a message you can control

but it is generated by you

So we humans naturally

will generate this inner message

for me

I will be more willing to believe

understand

but I recently had a little story about my son

I also think

if you are very pure at heart

and you are also very

honest about

what you like or dislike

The interpretation of this dream seems to be

not so necessary

Anyway, my son has recently

He started dreaming

I was surprised

He was three years old

Then he would dream

He would remember the dream

He would also describe his dream to me

Then he woke up one time recently

He said

Dad, I just had a dream

I dreamed

You take me to 7-11

Then you buy candies for me

Then I want to say

ok

It is indeed a dream

He is very clear

He likes to eat candies

His desire

Yes

He wants me to take him to 7-11

The contents of dreams are all memories

And memory will involve several points

That is, is it possible that he was induced

or is it possible that he

went to

desires

what I want

So of course I think

to modify his dream

because of some of my current

the child is very innocent

He will not have this

He is less likely to have this situation

He may be more

faithfully relaying the content of his dreams

But if it is an adult

In fact, when you are awake

the information you are exposed to

or

the induction given to you by others

He will

affect your dreams to a certain extent

In fact, here

what I want to express is

Dream research

Actually, to be honest

it is really difficult

Because it has something to do with your memory

It has something to do with your ability to express

People with good expression ability

He can talk a lot

So all this is

We are talking about so-called dreams

Does it have any meaning

And how to study dreams

and so on

I think it is still very

a difficult place

Just leave it alone

Don’t explore

Yes

Because it is difficult

But do you know

In fact, after I started studying psychology

One of my own views is

Dreams are the last piece of the puzzle that unlocks human mental ability

Don't you think that most of the psychological sciences

...

now study the waking state

The waking state of consciousness

Right

Later, after the science of sleep began to develop

we also know that during sleep

Your brain also has some operations

And when you sleep

These operations will come back

to affect your mental function during the day

But when sleeping

there is another very special situation

That is dreams

Whether dreams are considered consciousness

Of course we can have a lot of discussions

But at least your so-called dream display

is a part of our mind

A very special expression method

And this expression method

Why is it like this?

Why has it not been evolved

If from an evolutionary perspective

we say it must have its function

Then what is its function?

It is still very unknown so far

Although there are some functional theories

but it is still difficult

to cover the entire theory

Why do we still have these phenomena

So I always feel that

if our human research

continues until we can unlock the secrets of

dreams

By then we should have almost understood the entire human mind

...

Because the secret of dreams is too difficult

Like the Final Frontier of Space

This dream is of human consciousness

Final Frontier like this

There is another question

I am not asking

Which exercise is very important for sleep

Then you say go outside

Basically, you will give two suggestions

For sleep

Then one is exercise

What is the other one?

You actually remember this thing

That's right

I want to applaud you again

I feel like

Haha

The other one is actually a practice similar to

Mindfulness

...

It is mindfulness

or meditation, meditation or yoga

...

This type of exercise

Yes

Because it mainly comes from many people nowadays

I thought it would be something like

a balanced diet

No

It is Mindfulness

In fact, a balanced diet is mostly

I assume that there is not much difference in nutrition

...

Under this premise

we will probably give something like this

Mindfulness suggestions

This actually mainly comes from modern people

In fact, they are not very relaxed at night

Because you are still lighting up at night

Still looking at 3C products

So ideally our normal night

should be like that farming era

The light is very weak at night

Then you will hardly use your brain

But we modern people

our brains

are constantly operating

when we are almost awake After a long time, it will form a kind of inertia

That is, your brain will feel that

as long as you are awake, you have to keep working

keep working and working

Then there will be a kind of

similar to forgetting

or not knowing what state

is a relaxed state

After a long time, it will not be conducive to falling asleep.

When falling asleep, we will say

You must relax your brain before going to bed.

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

Or similar related studies have found that

you can make it easier for your brain to shut down through this kind of practice

...

Then I want to add this part

In fact,

in our brain

Regarding sleep

In fact, many people will think that

there is a switch in our brain

And this switch

Turn it on and you will wake up

Turn it off and you will sleep

But it is not

Our mechanism has two switches

One switch is for wakefulness

and the other switch is for sleep

So

the ideal situation is

For example, this side is awake and this side is sleeping

The level of wakefulness is higher during the day

Awake is on

The sleeping one must be turned off

Then wait until you slowly and slowly get longer and longer

You have to be awake more and more

Turn off more and more

Then sleep is more and more open

So wait until before going to bed at night

Sleep is completely turned on

Wake is completely turned off

So you can sleep well

Right

Then the situation we just described is

You turn it on when you are awake during the day

Right

Then as you stay awake longer and longer

your sleep pressure increases

So your sleep system is turned on

but your waking part is not reduced

Or it is not reduced enough

In this case

it will become difficult for you to fall asleep

Then this is also the most common case of insomnia among modern people

...

This is one of the problems

Then combined with another one is

When you can’t sleep well

What behavior will you do to help you fall asleep

Then this will be off track

Off track means

If you are doing the right behavior

It will help you reply

But if you do the wrong thing

it will make you sleep worse and worse

I can imagine that everyone is swiping their phones

Hahahaha

Yes, but when it comes to swiping their phones

In fact

it’s hard for you to say it in one word

Swiping your phone or 3C is definitely not good

You know a while ago

I read a study

That is

For certain ethnic groups

Watching some TV 30 minutes before going to bed

It helps them sleep

What kind of person

is a person whose brain continues to operate during the day

A person who operates at a high speed

Then you can imagine

For that kind of person

He is watching TV

Watching those brainless dramas

Then he will feel that

this to me is relaxation

So it is actually still a relative thing

You have a stimulus that can help him

Don't think so much

Then just watch mindless dramas over there

So for him

he can still relax

But what about

if you look at the entire mechanism

It is not the best way to relax

It's just that for some people

it is still relaxing

Then if you can learn a deeper sleep

Like what we just talked about

Meditation, meditation, yoga

Mindfulness, etc.

These are deeper sleep

If you can master this method through practice

...

Then your wakefulness switch

before going to bed will be easier to turn off

Then it will be easier to turn off

You can adjust those biological clocks

sleep pressure

...

Your sleep will be easier to unfold

So the problem of insomnia among modern people

Do you want to say it is stress

It is indeed stress

But what about

After stress

Is your treatment method

headed in the right direction

This is the most critical point for most people

doing cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia

...

So

we often hear that

Just watch TV

Just exercise

Anything is fine

Because everyone

is among the factors of sleep

Where he went wrong is different

So it's hard for you to have a

simple solution

I can imagine that some things

are helpful for sleep

For example,

the curtains really need to be completely dark

or all the lights should be turned off

Because light is obviously related to sleep

I know

But I saw that you wrote an article

that means

temperature will also affect

yes

high temperature

yes

After I saw it, I thought

wow, what did

emphasize over there

Now the air conditioner needs to be turned on 26 27

Nonsense

I can’t sleep well

This will start fighting again

Who cares about the earth

I want to sleep

In fact, it has something to do with our temperature regulation

Our body temperature goes down

The body temperature here refers to the core body temperature

The core body temperature goes down

It will also make you more prone to drowsiness

So in other words

Of course you are at a higher body temperature than yours

You also need a low-temperature environment

That will help your body temperature drop

The definition is very broad

In this way, it is easy to sleep as long as it is below 37 degrees

But it can affect our core body temperature

It is usually lower

The research is like this

Sometimes we will see some

Citing research from Western countries

They will say about 18 degrees

But in fact

wow

you can know 18 degrees

For us Taiwanese,

is super cold

Right

So later

kept peeing

Some later research

My own interpretation is this

This will depend on you

Our original living environment

In the school where we taught before

there was a Japanese professor

and his office was super cold

Every time I entered his office

I said you won’t be cold

Then he wore short sleeves

This is just right

Yes Therefore, the

original environment

where they live in different countries will affect the

optimal sleep temperature we just talked about

There are some studies in those Western countries,

It is about 18 degrees

But I also saw some later

In Asian countries

such as China

and their research in Malaysia

is actually about 23 degrees

Not bad

Yes But is the best 23 degrees

You also know

In fact, all behavioral science research

is to find a group of people

and then do it

Most of the people they find are adults

They are young people

So is your 23 degrees

applicable to everyone

Actually it is difficult to say

So most of the suggestions we give are

that environment

The first is your temperature

You should feel cool

Comfortable

And the humidity should not be high

Because the humidity is high

It will be more difficult for you to dissipate heat

So in this situation

It is easier for you to fall asleep

Then if it is too cold

For example, if I am 18 degrees

I will definitely feel super cold

In that case

it will be harder to sleep

Understand

Thank you very much today

Teacher Yuzhe shared so much

Very interesting

Dreaming

Physiological

How to fall asleep

There are also some of the most practical

is mindfulness

Exercise

and

The air conditioner can be turned down a little bit

My personal favorite

Today I would like to thank Teacher Yuzhe very much again

Thank you

Then today’s episode of blog is recorded here

vs there is no point in the middle

See you in the next episode

Goodbye

[Chinese]

哈囉各位聽眾大家好

歡迎收聽最新一集的博音

不知道你現在收聽的時候

是早上還是晚上

是不是正準備要入眠

或是剛剛才起床

但是感覺沒有睡飽呢

今天要聊這集主題呢

是我個人非常感興趣

也深受其困擾

幾乎是一輩子的主題

那就是睡眠

那我們請來就是哇賽心理學的站長

我們來歡迎的是蔡宇哲老師

博恩好

各位聽眾朋友大家好

我是宇哲

很開心在這裡

又可以來跟大家聊聊睡覺這件事

其實今天這集是不是要聊的話

可以聊非常非常非常久

對 因為基本上我們在睡眠這個主題

我們開過36小時的工作坊

對

看我們想要聊多久

都可以聊多久

好 那我就先

針對一些我個人的疑問

然後可能會有一些天馬行空的問題

然後再請教一下

學術上面到底有沒有看過類似的現象

我第一個非常困惑的事情是

我們到底為什麼需要睡覺

為什麼會需要睡覺

如果從生物體來講的話

最簡化的講法就是

你不睡覺就會死

對 這個第一個

我們從動物研究裡面

其實也發現

因為一剛開始做研究的睡眠學者

他也非常想知道這個問題

可是你不能拿人做實驗

怎麼辦

就是用老鼠

所以就讓老鼠

一直處於不睡覺的狀態

那研究發現如果正常情況底下

他大概經過四到六個禮拜

老鼠就會死亡

那另外 死亡

到底是因為什麼原因死亡呢

一剛開始 研究者也覺得說

如果是因為心臟的關係

心臟會出現病變嘛

那其他地方會出現病變

所以他們很想知道

到底

沒有睡眠會導致哪個地方出問題

那結果發現呢

沒有一致性的答案

也就是說呢

有一些可能心血管有問題

有一些可能其他的地方問題

但是都不會統一指向哪裡

那最後的一個研究

他發現最終

你可以有比較明確解答的是

他們到後期

他的熱量的調節出現失衡的情況

簡單地講這些老鼠

他吃的會比平常的多一倍

就是他吃很多

可是他的體重變成是本來的一半

所以大家想像你吃很多

可是你又越來越瘦

這個是我們剛剛講的

他整個能量系統的失衡

那能量系統的失衡

連帶的我們身體的整個系統

他都會出狀況

好那這個是動物研究

那我們有提到

其實人類身上

你不能做這種研究

只有老鼠做過嗎

有其他動物嗎

我想知道

其他動物其實比老鼠更高階的

通常不太能做

你也知道會有 IRP 的問題

更何況在現在

它其實是越來越嚴格

但是在人類史上

它其實曾經出現一種

非常特別的一種腦部的疾病

我要講這個疾病之前

我要先問博恩一個問題

假設

假設你知道了

你有一種家族性的遺傳疾病

那這種家族性遺傳疾病

有可能在你四五十歲的時候發病

那萬一發病

最後一定會在大約

幾十個禮拜當中會死亡

但不一定會發病

就有可能會發病

但不一定會發病

那現在 在你年輕的時候

有一種檢測方法

檢測你有沒有帶有這種基因

你會去檢測嗎

會啊

真的

會啊

但是檢測出來如果有

最後

要麼發病

要麼不發病

那只要發病就一定會out

對啊

在這種情況你決定

一定會

一定會檢測

要知道啊

你實在太有勇氣了

什麼意思啊

我真的不懂

為什麼

會有那個鴕鳥心態

沒有 其實在這個故事當中

其實有不少人

他是選擇不檢測

為什麼

因為他會出現一種壓力

就是我有可能會出現一種

類似絕症這種情況

那到底會不會出現不知道

所以他們就會覺得

我從年輕

我就要活得非常的兢兢業業

好 那我為什麼要問這個問題呢

在大概一百多年前吧

曾經有一種疾病叫

致死性家族失眠症

它是一種遺傳疾病

然後它是一種大腦當中的

蛋白的突變

那這種蛋白的突變呢

因為帶有基因

然後一直傳下去

那它最典型的就是

等到他大概40到60歲的時候

有可能會發病

那一旦發病

最後他就會越來越難睡

到後期他就整個都沒有辦法睡覺

然後他整個都沒有辦法睡覺的時候

他也會呈現一種盜汗

就是一直流汗

然後體重一直變瘦的情況

那最終呢

就是一直直到他死亡

所以

我們就從這種

家族性致死失眠症

你就可以看到

跟我們剛剛講的動物實驗

會有很類似的情況

就是你沒有睡覺

到最後

你就會呈現一個熱量失衡的情況

好 那這就是為什麼

我會跟你說

為什麼要睡覺

因為我們白天

其實是做非常非常多的工作

那當你做了這麼多工作以後

你總要有時間

讓你整個系統

然後讓它做一個重整

那健康

或者是我們剛剛講的熱量平衡

這個大概是

最基本的

就是跟生存相關的

那其他

其實也有一些比較細部的

比如說我們大腦在白天的時候

你不斷地在動腦

我們大腦用掉能量

會產生一些代謝物

那代謝物累積在你的大腦當中

久了以後

你的大腦就越來越髒

所以我們在睡眠當中

你就會最有效率的

把你白天產生的這些代謝物

把它清掉

所以想像起來

它就很像是

你在很忙的時候

你的工作室

你的房間

你的辦公室就會很亂

那等到這段時間終於忙完了

那就好好的把它打掃

打掃得乾淨一點

那乾淨一點

你的工作效率就會好

那我們的大腦

其實就類似這種機制

你白天就是把它弄亂

那晚上的時候

好好的把它打掃

那打掃乾淨以後

你隔天

你才能夠最有效率的啟動

所以剛剛講的這兩個

大概就是

我們可以用來理解

為什麼一定要睡眠的一個主要原因

就生存的機制來講

它是一個幫助我們維生

必要的一個條件

就是一個行為

那就我們的

比如說高效能

就我們的認知

就我們的情緒來講

它都有助於讓我們白天的

這一些所有的行為

做一個重整

我通常都會說

你就想像以前

你用以前舊的那個Windows

用久了以後

你是不是會變得越來越慢

系統會越來越卡

那這個時候怎麼辦

你就重開機

不是要什麼磁碟重組嗎

我記得以前都

這個也類似

磁碟重組通常是

什麼清理

反正就是把一些什麼

Cookie那些清掉

對

那這個就有一點類似

我們在談記憶系統

我們在睡覺的時候

大腦就會把白天的記憶

它判斷需要的記憶留下來

不要的記憶刪掉

然後再跟過往的記憶去做結合

那這個就有一點類似

你講的磁碟重組

雖然一剛開始我回答你說

不睡覺會怎麼樣

會死

聽起來好像很嚴重

但確實

如果我們從演化學來看

你就會發現

所有的生物都會睡覺

所有

連單細胞

不好意思

我必須要修正

植物

你知道嗎

我以前啊

我在寫論文的時候

我就曾經寫過這一句

那一樣

你就很像是我的指導教授

我的指導教授就盯我說

所有

你能證明所有嗎

好啦 大部分

我剛剛自己就一直非常想要問

是多原始的生物開始

感覺是比較複雜的才會睡覺

這個我們又要提到

蟲會睡覺嗎

睡覺它是什麼概念

比方說果蠅好了

你覺得果蠅會睡覺嗎

這個問法聽起來就是會

但是果蠅的睡覺

其實跟我們

現在所認知的睡覺不太一樣

因為我們現在在談

比較核心在談睡眠功能

是從哺乳類以後

那在這之前

我們會說它有接近睡眠的行為

比方說我們怎麼知道

這隻果蠅在睡覺

好那理想上

果蠅如果停在一個地方

那你稍微震動

如果牠清醒 稍微震動

牠應該會趕快飛走

那正常情況來講

果蠅不會停在一個地方停很久

所以研究者就會判斷說

在一天24小時紀錄當中

牠在白天的時候

那牠如果明顯的就是活動量比較多

晚上的時候活動量比較少

那稍微震動 牠都不太動

好 那我們就判斷

牠不太動的那個時期

就類似是睡眠的狀態

你剛剛提到比如說藍綠藻

對

藍綠藻這種會不會睡覺

這又牽涉到我們剛剛講

其實果蠅那種行為

我們可以把它理解成是一種生理時鐘

就是生物體

大部分的生物體

都必須要有這一種

它固定要活動的週期

跟它比較不活動的週期

那藍綠藻那些原生的藻類

它其實也有一天24小時

這樣子的週期

其實不要講藍綠藻

在好像2019吧

諾貝爾生醫獎

他所探討出來

在我們的分子層次

它其實就帶有這種

一天24小時的循環

在我們人類的細胞當中

在我們現存

可見的大部分的生物

它多半都帶有這種

24小時一個週期變化的一個現象

而這個現象的背後

多半是有一部分是活動

有一部分是休息

那休息的部分呢

很明顯的大休息那一種

我們就會把它理解成

類似人類睡眠的行為

那我想問一下

因為剛剛講說

大休息的那種

可是

我人生中有兩次的事件

讓我去接觸到了一種

就是比較奇怪的睡眠心態

一個是我大學的時候

因為我那時候就覺得說

睡眠很煩

我是一個超級需要睡眠的人

我怎麼樣睡都睡不飽

然後我覺得

它有點在浪費我的時間

因為我想要有更多的時間

可以做更多的事情

所以那個時候

有個學長他就跟我講說

有個東西叫超人睡眠法

超人睡眠法就是說

我們平常不是午休那樣趴15分鐘

就會覺得超有精神嗎

它就是把

你一日所需要的睡眠

拆成15分鐘15分鐘15分鐘

然後

變成一種

沒有一段超長時間的睡眠

但是

好像我記得是

整天你只要睡兩個小時吧

你只要固定時間睡15分鐘

然後再起來

然後再睡15分鐘

因為它的道理是說

有些生物也是這樣

並不是每個生物都是晚上

睡很長一段時間

然後我想問的是

真的是這樣嗎

因為我人生第二次碰到

非常類似的經驗

就是在我生小孩之後

小孩的週期就是

三四個小時喝一次奶加睡覺嘛

然後你就等到他下一次起來

喝奶睡覺

所以那個時候不只是小孩

是按照這個週期

父母也會跟著變成這個週期

有點類似

父母不會變成這個週期

父母只會很痛苦

對

父母只會很痛苦

好 那其實你講的就是

睡眠的另外一個

很容易被錯誤理解的一個概念

這個通常都忽略了睡眠

另外一個特性

就是我們剛剛講的生理時鐘

在我們的生物體當中

睡眠這件事情

是由兩個主要因素來決定

第一個就是你的睡眠壓力

我們通常會說睡眠債務

比方說你如果24小時沒睡覺

你的債務就很大

你壓力就很大

那大家都會覺得說

好 那我只要把壓力清除掉就好了

你剛剛講的這種分階段的睡眠

它就是著重在壓力這個部分

但是另外生理時鐘的意思是說

我們的生物體

你要在對的時間

做符合那個時段的行為

它才會最佳效率

以人類來講

因為人類是日行性動物

那日行性動物

牠的型態就是白天活動

晚上休息

也就是說如果我們人類

以這樣子的形式

去進行你的行為

它的效率會最好

如果我們從這個角度

演化的角度去思考的話

你就可以理解

睡覺這件事情放在晚上

它的執行會最有效率

那假設今天有一個作息正常的人

比方說你

你的作息還是大部分

你的生理時鐘還是晚上應該要睡覺

但是你在某一天

你就強制

你在白天的時候睡八個小時

那這樣子白天的八個小時

可以抵掉你晚上的八個小時嗎

不行

因為生理時鐘的關係

你在白天雖然同樣睡八個小時

可是你的睡眠結構

會跟晚上做這件事情不太一樣

你白天小睡一下

可以幫你恢復精神嗎

可以

但是長期下來

它可以讓你維持這樣子的一個狀態

然後你的大腦跟你的身心

不會受到影響嗎

目前的結論是不行

就如果你是一般人

目前的結論不行

你剛剛講的那一種

其實還有一些

在特殊情境的

比方說國外他們有一些在做

他要單人帆船

然後可能跨越大西洋

他們可能要一個人

然後開著船

然後可能開

可能要上百天

他必須要時時的醒著

不然他什麼時候撞上冰山不知道

那在這種比賽當中

他們就有過

有曾經採用你剛剛講那種方法

他就是把一天分成二十分鐘

二十分鐘當中

他可能小睡個一段時間

然後再醒來

那這個的確可以幫助他撐過比賽

但不適合一輩子都這樣

對

那上岸以後他可以繼續這樣嗎

不行

因為從那一些相關的研究發現

他的睡眠壓力一直持續在累積

所以他仍然需要補眠

那我可以問說

就是為什麼會講說

我們白天的時候醒著

跟晚上的時候睡覺是最有效率的

是

就是單純因為太陽本身

嗎

如果最核心來講

應該是我們日行性動物設計的機制

它本來就這樣

太陽這件事情

它對我們人類來講

對日行性動物來講

有一種促醒的效果

也就是說

只要你早上起來

你有照到太陽

它就可以幫你變得比較清醒

而這個主觀上的比較清醒

會讓你認知功能執行上會比較好

所以比方說你前一天晚上熬夜

那你早上起來昏昏沉沉的

但是你又要立刻工作怎麼辦

你就出去曬太陽

曬太陽可以讓你立刻醒過來

然後讓你的注意力趕快的回復

這個是

陽光對我們人類直接的效果

因為我周遭有一些人

他們就會日夜顛倒

通常比較藝術

就是那種創作家

或是表演類型的人

都是晚上表演嘛

所以他白天大概都在睡覺

然後晚上起來工作

這些人他們長久以來

這樣子的作息

會對他們的身體造成什麼影響

這個其實又要連結到

我們在談生理時鐘的時候

原則上在目前的研究裡面

生理時鐘的結論是

你如果可以維持穩定的作息的話

那基本上就是OK的

因為

工業革命以來

電燈普及了

然後現在所有的科技

都讓我們的環境

沒有那麼的絕對的白天跟晚上

所以在這種情況底下

現在的研究者主要

你可以把它想成退而求其次

就至少你要達到穩定

穩定就像你剛剛講的

如果他是一個長期是晚睡晚起

那他只要維持這樣子的節奏

就是比如說他可能三天晚睡晚起

然後三天變成一般的狀態

這樣就混亂

就有點像輪班工作

所以只要穩定的話

基本上

目前的共識是

對身體不會有太大的影響

但老實說在真實的情況底下

你要維持這樣子的一個作息

不容易啦

持續夜班的

就很像是你剛剛講的那種情況

但是他們仍然會碰到一種情況就是

我的家庭生活要顧啊

我的小孩是白天活動的啊

那我要不要帶小孩出去

那我要不要跟親友聯繫

所以他還是會需要跟那一些一般

就是白天醒來

晚上睡覺的人互動嘛

所以他還是會有幾天是不符合

他所謂的晚睡晚起的情況

我剛剛想到還有另外一個例子

可能就是像那種航空人員

然後他們要一直調時差

一直調時差

所以這個是一個

對身體不太好的作息吧

不用吧

一定是

一定是

我的博士論文就是研究生理時鐘

那我博士論文研究完之後的結論就是

盡可能不要做輪班工作

但是也不是這樣啊

因為我們現在的社會啊

你說沒有輪班工作已經不可能了

所以通常我會跟大家講

輪班工作不要一直做太久

研究的數據大概是這樣

如果你現在處於輪班工作的狀態

就是你生理時鐘混亂嘛

那麼你罹患各種疾病

這裡各種疾病

你想像到的疾病都有

高血壓 糖尿病 心血管疾病

中風等等通通有

那你罹患這些疾病的風險會上升

但是

如果你做了二十年

做二十年輪班

那接下來而我不輪班了

我變成正常的情況

那麼它的風險會再降低

也就是說人類至少

在比較年輕的時候

我們對於這種

違反我們天性的情況

有一定程度的耐受性啦

但是請記得

它畢竟是違反我們的基因的設計

所以你持續下去的話

風險會持續地上升

你有觀察到有什麼樣的年紀

就差不多可以開始停了嗎

像博恩你年輕的時候

你也可以很長時間

熬夜不睡覺

沒錯

不會怎麼樣

我已經不行了啊

對啊

我以前也可以啊

但是現在不行啊

所以

大概依照我這種耐受的感覺

我覺得大概三十五歲以後

它會明顯的

沒有辦法承受的情況會明顯的增加

所以我多半也會說

好啦

那你如果真的要輪班的話

還是切一段時間

那至少之後你真的要做的話

盡量去找固定的某一個班次

比較好

對 國外研究其實也發現

固定大夜班會比那種照三班輪的

他們的身體的健康

還是有比較好一點

對

我為什麼會那麼清楚知道

我現在已經沒有辦法那樣做

就是因為我以前在做夜夜秀的時候

我那時候的確是養成了另外一個

還算穩定的規則

對 但是它跟一般人不太一樣

我那時候四十八小時只睡一次

所以就是

因為我寫不完

東西太多

要看的東西太多

然後寫的東西太多

所以就每兩天睡一次

然後我那個時候有意外的

我想要確認這件事情

就是我突然發現說

我長期睡眠剝奪之後

不知道為什麼

我的心情變得比較愉悅

很奇怪

因為很反直覺

我都會

以前學的全部都是

睡眠剝奪一定會心情越來越不好

但我那時候有一個

好像置之死地而後生的一種愉悅

那我就去查

我那時候Google

sleep deprivation induced euphoria

然後還真的有查到結果

對

然後我那時候嚇死

可是像

最近幾年

那種健身啊

或是他們族群

比較流行的一種

長時間斷食

就是過往大家也覺得

每天都要吃東西

沒有人可以連續五天七天以上

不吃東西的

可是後來有研究說

喔你如果有一個長時間的斷食

它之後對於恢復身體機能這些

是有幫助的

所以我想要問的問題是

會不會其實也有這種

就是你長時間睡眠剝奪

然後你之後身體反而知道

我可以更有效率的利用睡眠

有這種現象嗎

欸我覺得這個想法很好欸

對嘛

好

我先補充你剛剛講的

就是

缺乏睡眠會不會讓你比較愉悅

有一種

對特定重度憂鬱症的治療法

就是睡眠剝奪

就是有一群那種重度憂鬱症

他吃藥也沒有效

做什麼東西也沒有效

那叫他不要睡覺

他就會產生類似的效果

但是

他只要再睡回去

他的憂鬱的程度又會回來

那至於長時間不睡覺

為什麼會有這種情況呢

第一個他不是每一個人都會這樣

就是有一類

有一類的情況他會這樣

一個可能的原因是你的大腦會

越來越 arousal

就是他會越來越清醒

而這個越來越清醒

就會讓你更多的控制感

然後你可以做越來越多的事

特別是那些事也會給你正向感受

比方說你那個時候在寫劇本

那你長時間不睡覺

然後越寫越起勁

要進入心流狀態

然後他寫完又有成就感

哇

整個你就覺得爽

這個其實也是在一些藝術家

他們特有

為什麼晚上會處於這種

就是一直要熬夜這種情況

那我以前我在做研究的時候

我曾經想過一種假設是

當你一定程度的熬夜之後

你的大腦有沒有可能會變得比較有創意呢

這個其實是其中一種

其中一種觀點

因為

我們在研究創意這件事情上

它核心就是你要離開

你原本的框架

你要打破它

可是當你的大腦長時間不睡覺的話

它是

生理上已經在failing

對

所以你不得不離開框架

這個叫崩解

然後你就會處於一種

哇

天馬行空

甚至如果你更長時間的話

其實是有可能會產生一些妄想或幻覺

妄想或幻覺聽起來是比較嚴重

但是你可以把它理解成

你會比較容易出現

一些原本不會有的

那種想法或感覺

但我要再次強調

這不是每個人都會有

就是有一些人會有這種情況

所以你就可以把它理解成

像你剛剛講的

好 那我晚上我不睡覺

我可以不受打擾

我會進入心流

而且我寫劇本又會特別來勁

所以它就會成為很多人說

我必須要熬夜才能完成

的其中一個可能性

大家應該都有個經驗

假如說期末考週

然後我們就熬夜念很多書

然後一考完所有科目的那一刻

睡特別沉

不是忘了

哈哈哈哈

就忘了

好老師喔

這是老師才有的

學生 我們才不在乎忘了或是記得

反正考完了嘛

對對對

就是睡

之後睡的那一覺很舒服

對啊

這個就是睡眠壓力

對啊

因為你長時間沒有睡覺

我們身體會累積睡眠壓力

睡眠壓力在我們大腦當中

我們有一個指標叫

adenosine

我們中文大概叫腺苷

也就是說

如果你持續不睡覺

你的腺苷的累積會越來越多

那當你腺苷累積越來越多

就會形成你的睡眠壓力

而你睡眠壓力越高的話

你進入睡眠當中

所謂的深層睡眠

它就會越長

而且會越深

通常我們在評估深層睡眠

會有兩個指標

一個指標就是

你的深層睡眠持續時間多久

就是量

那另外一個指標

就是我們可以去測量他的腦波

如果他那個腦波 慢波的

N amplitude

就是他的振幅越大

那也表示他的品質

深層睡眠的品質就會越好

所以當你的睡眠壓力越大的話

通常質跟量

他都會展現出

比較偏向深層睡眠

所以睡不好的人就是不夠累嗎

這個

也可以算是

他其中一個可能性

對 但是就像我們剛剛講的

其實影響睡眠的因素

他其實蠻多的

對 我剛剛

這個其實是我最在乎的一個點

我覺得啦

我好像

一直以來都有一種

我不管睡多久

都會有一種沒充好電的感覺

就像那個手機

然後插了一整晚

沒充到電

然後

我最近有個小故事

就是我最近動了一個手術

所以我需要全身麻醉

然後全身麻醉的時候

我睡得好爽哦

從來沒有

好久沒有睡得那麼爽

然後反正我在動手術的時候

我好像還在打呼

邊動手術

因為我太太有在旁邊幫我錄影

然後

打呼超大聲這樣

因為的確有錄影

所以

我聽得到醫生

跟我老婆在那邊碎嘴

醫生就說

他平常就這樣

然後我老婆說對啊吵死了

這個應該是

那個 可以去買一個

那個鎮壓呼吸器

感覺他平常睡眠

應該是都沒有到品質很好

然後

以前其實我一直在講說

我睡不好睡不好

其他人給我的建議

也是好像可以去測試一下

有沒有呼吸中止

這個其實

就是現在我們最多人

會有的一個問題

就是你睡覺的時候如果會打呼

而且很大聲

然後偶爾還會出現

好像他打呼打到一半中斷這種

這種我們通常都會建議

要去做一些診斷

但是你剛剛講的那個麻醉的部分

我想要再補充一下

其實有一些研究

他其實就透過深度麻醉

來模擬我們的深層睡眠

因為適當

這個跟麻醉藥的劑量

還有它的成分有關係

就是特定的麻醉藥的劑量跟成分

可以造成我們的腦波

類似 slow wave 的狀態

所以有一些動物實驗

他是用這個 麻醉來替代說

如果生物體進入睡眠狀態的話

牠會是什麼樣子

像曾經有一個研究

你可能應該聽過

他會說側睡對我們睡眠比較好

我只有聽說側睡不會打呼

對側睡比較不會打呼沒有錯

好那側睡對睡眠比較好

他背後的理論是用動物實驗

讓動物進入麻醉狀態

然後他去測量牠大腦清洗的狀態

就是把那些代謝物清掉的狀態

然後發現側睡的麻醉狀態底下

牠的清除的效率會比較好

所以就有一些說法說

好啦 那這樣子我們人都應該要側睡

但其實不是這樣

好

那回來一點就是

有一些人會誤以為把麻醉當成是睡眠

像是有一些人會去一些醫美診所

然後叫他幫他打那種

那種安眠

可以這樣喔

當然不行啊

但是你也知道這個世界就是

有一些不行但是有一些人行

實際上是不合法的

但是確實有人會這麼做

國外其實也有

好那這種情況他就會出現

一來他會有一種成癮性

因為那些麻醉藥

都是我們的神經類的藥物

那二來那一些會讓你造成那種

深度失去意識的狀態

其實你剛描述的又有一種

我們對睡眠很有趣的感覺

你想想看

其實人類真的並不知道

睡覺以後是什麼感覺

對是醒來之後的評估

所以我們總是覺得

如果我失去意識

我完全失去意識

那表示我睡得很好

對啊

對吧所以你剛講了

你進入麻醉狀態

雖然你的腦波也有slow wave

但是你就覺得

我有一段時間完全失去意識

好爽

他很像睡覺的感覺

但其實不是

我只是要跟大家說明

千萬不要用這種手法

以為你好像真的有睡覺

其實真的真的不是

可是我再舉手問一下

就是

一開始講到的那個家族

然後致命

對 致死失眠症

他們難道不能借助藥物

來讓他們睡著嗎

目前的情況是

因為他是大腦當中

掌管他睡眠清醒的系統

整個被破壞掉了

所以他就算是透過藥物

他大腦他仍然沒有辦法正常的運作

當然也可以

你剛講的那種情況

就有點像是緩解啦

但是他的損害的情況

一定會越來越嚴重

所以他後面走向同樣結局

其實是一樣的

就像我們做動物實驗

動物實驗比如說老鼠不睡覺

我們有沒有辦法讓牠延後

可以

我們讓牠吃高熱量的食物

高熱量的食物老鼠可以活久一點

因為我們剛剛講牠熱量會失衡

會一直變瘦

所以你只要給牠吃高熱量的食物

他會活得比較久

這個也很有趣

因為跟大家熬夜的經驗超像的

就是熬夜到一半就會肚子超餓

會很想吃東西

其實我們一定程度

你也可以把睡眠

或是沒有睡覺這件事情

看成是一種壓力

我們演化上

當你承受壓力的時候

你會做幾個動作

第一個當然就是你要累積能量

所以你晚上本來應該要休息了

可是你卻沒有在休息

就有一定程度會警覺說

是不是有敵人要打過來

所以我要儲備能量

所以可以吃的時候

我當然盡量吃

研究也發現你在吃宵夜的時候

你會特別喜歡選高熱量的

跟平常相比

對

這個如果我們從剛剛講

那種演化上會判斷

這是處於壓力狀態

所以你要去選擇高熱量的

這樣聽起來就非常合理

所以我都會盡量讓自己不要太晚睡

因為你不要讓自己的大腦

陷入那一種錯誤的認知

對啊

你這樣子挑戰你的大腦

實在是太辛苦了

瞭解

因為剛剛講到腺苷

然後深層睡眠這些東西

我想要問的問題是

有哪些原因會讓我們

沒有辦法進入深層睡眠

像呼吸中止

它就是一個

肇因是什麼

就是

為什麼有些人會這樣

我們可以理解

我們睡眠還是有從淺到深

那從淺到深

除了你的大腦以外

你的肌肉會越來越放鬆

呼吸中止它的核心的原因

就是你的呼吸道會塞住

你仰躺的時候

你可能脖子這邊

或者是你呼吸道哪邊比較狹窄

因為你的肌肉張力放鬆了

所以它會塌下來

所以你可以想像我們的呼吸道

它本來是一個比較有彈性的管子

那等到晚上睡覺以後

它彈性可能變得比較差了

那上面會有一些重量

然後壓下來

因為你肌肉放鬆了

那壓下來

然後它就塞住了

我們的大腦

它比如說你剛開始睡覺的時候

還行

還沒有被塞住

慢慢越來越塞住

那一旦塞住了

你的血氧濃度會下降

那血氧濃度下降會死掉

所以你的大腦會把你喚醒

所以它就會形成是

你本來由淺到深

可是你深的時候就會塞住

所以你還沒到深的時候

大腦就會把你喚醒

那喚醒你就會再回到淺

然後淺再深

然後再喚醒

所以那些嚴重的

睡眠呼吸中止的

他就會幾乎沒有深層睡眠

那幾乎沒有深層睡眠

所造成的影響會非常非常的大

所以在臨床研究也發現

如果那一種睡眠呼吸中止的個案

他在罹患各種慢性疾病的風險

我要再重述一次

中風 心血管疾病 糖尿病 高血壓

只要你想像得到的那些慢性的疾病

它在睡眠呼吸中止的個案

都會明顯地上升

所以我們通常

如果我去演講的對象

是40歲以上 男性 肥胖

只要綜合這三個

我們就會說

你評估一下晚上會不會打呼

會不會很大聲

等一下 肥胖跟

是因為剛剛講的所有的熱量調節

所以他逐漸地會開始變胖

因為有一種塞住的

是因為比如說他的脖子

他可能比較多脂肪

那躺著你也可以想像

他就整個壓下去

然後就會塞住

在面對男性的場合

我們比較會談這件事情

等一下

我剛剛聽到一個關鍵

那女性呢

女性不打呼的

她在睡眠呼吸中止的風險上

她確實是明顯的比較低

是老天性別歧視還是什麼原因

曾經有一些說法是

雌性素的關係啦

但這個我之後沒有update

所以不太確定

我當時讀書的時候

我看到一種說法

雌性素在身體

確實在很多的層面上

對女性有一些保護

那也看到了

女性的更年期過後

她的很多的風險

其實也會提高

這個是當時我所理解到的一個說法

但現在的研究走到那裡

我不太知道

因為關於性別的荷爾蒙

我只有在讀書的時候有研究而已

瞭解瞭解

那我剛還有聽到一個關鍵詞是

腺苷

我對這個詞的印象呢

跟咖啡有關

對對對對

果然是學Neuroscience的

我今天很想問

就是

各個會影響到睡眠的某些物質

像是咖啡

然後

其實以前

我對鎂沒有那麼

就是沒有看到那麼多的鎂

然後最近幾年

一大堆人叫我們要吃鎂

是什麼東西啊

為什麼啊

我也覺得現在好像每個人

都需要吃很多東西

除了鎂以外

還有什麼魚油啊

很多東西

好那第一個

腺苷這種東西

它是我們身體

你清醒的時候

大腦它就會自然產生

你可以把它看成一種代謝物

所以我們大腦在醒著的時候

它因為不斷的在運作嘛

所以它確實各種代謝物都有

而腺苷這種比較特別的是

它累積的越多

它就會促使你的大腦不想工作

促使你大腦罷工

就會想睡覺

而咖啡因

咖啡因本身它的結構式

就是跟腺苷很像

所以你如果喝咖啡下去

比方說你可能24小時沒有睡覺

所以你腺苷很多

那腺苷很多

腺苷必須要跟接受器結合

它才會產生睏睡的效果

那咖啡因你吃進去呢

它就會佔著毛坑不拉屎

它會跟腺苷的接收器結合

可是它不會產生作用

這就是為什麼咖啡因你喝下去

可以有一段時間讓你保持清醒的關係

這是最核心的要素啦

但是呢

你 咖啡因佔著毛坑不拉屎

可是腺苷還是一直在產生

一直在累積

所以如果你持續不睡覺的話

你的咖啡因必須要一直補一直補

因為咖啡因的半衰期

以正常人類來講的話

大概4到6小時

那它那個耐受性是怎樣

就是我們的受器會一直增加是嗎

腺苷的受器

腺苷會不斷地累積啦

那受器是固定的啊

可是

咖啡因佔住它的時間是固定的啊

它沒有辦法一直佔著

因為一段時間它就會消失

對 它有半衰期

它會被代謝掉

那為什麼大家會講說那種喝咖啡

然後會越喝越沒有效果

這個就跟耐受性有關

可是這個部分可能要牽涉到

咖啡因的學問

我以前啊

我在去一個就是在談咖啡的場合

談我們剛剛講的事情

那就有一位非常懂咖啡的人告訴我說

如果它是真正的好咖啡的話

它是不會影響睡眠的

那我當時就非常不能夠理解

什麼叫做真正的好咖啡

就我們剛剛理解的是

咖啡因本身的結構跟腺苷很像嘛

對不對

所以只要它是這種咖啡因的結構

它必然會產生影響

所以它的差別就是

這個咖啡的咖啡因的程度

對

多跟少的差別

那也的確不同的咖啡豆

然後它烘焙的不同的方法

它會影響到它的成分

所以我的理解是

有一些咖啡如果你適當地把它

把它煮出來的話

它的咖啡因可以比較少啦

這個是我的理解

那就是爛咖啡啊

我喝咖啡是為了醒的

而不是為了喝味道的

對 那這個就是看你需要咖啡

到底是需要咖啡因

還是需要咖啡的味道

那我如果為了睡得更沉

然後白天一直喝咖啡

來讓我在睡前剛好可以crash

就是身體垮掉

全部的腺苷湧進去

我是不是比較容易可以進入深層睡眠

其實我覺得這種方法沒有那麼

沒有那麼有效

就理論上

就理論上來講

還以為是沒有不行

其實與其這樣

不如你可以去做一些更簡單的

比如說你白天多一些活動

那另外一個就是你白天多一些照光

其實現代人很常忽略了陽光

對我們睡眠產生的效果

好那陽光的效果

第一個它可以讓我們的生理時鐘

比較穩定

剛剛我們講嘛

我們生物體它就是一個穩定

白天醒 晚上睡覺的這種型態

所以這種型態你只要越明顯

越明顯的意思是

比如說有一些上班族

他們在白天的時候都在建築物裡面

那他中午可能叫外送

那他下班的時候可能已經

天黑了或黃昏了

所以他

你就可以想像他一天

真的曬到陽光的時間就很短

像比如說我們現在攝影棚就很暗

只有這種攝影燈

所以你一天

如果都在這裡面拍攝的話

你今天照光就非常非常少

那相對的如果有人都是一天

比如說至少他在外面的時間

可能兩個小時以上

那這兩種人

他在白天所接受到的光線

陽光就不一樣

而不一樣就會影響到

他夜晚的褪黑激素的分泌

那褪黑激素你也可以理解

它就是幫助你比較容易啟動睡眠

的一種我們的神經激素

套用我們剛剛的說法

你白天只要有適度的照光

那幫助你的褪黑激素在晚上

比較容易分泌

那比較容易分泌

你就比較容易可以進入

我們剛剛講的

進入睡眠也好

或是進入比較深層的睡眠

所以我才會說與其你要用咖啡

那種方法

你不如去照光

它其實是一個更簡便的方法

褪黑激素我也是蠻好奇的

就是

因為臺灣沒有賣

臺灣有賣嗎

臺灣是處方箋

你必須要去找醫生

OK

可是如果從國外帶回來是OK的

好像是

我記得是

對

因為

基本上每次去美國

我就會買褪黑激素

對

那你吃了有效嗎

我吃了有效

很有效

可是我老婆吃了沒效

那你大概都什麼時候吃

就是睡前嗎

睡前吃嗎

其實一般來講

如果我們在

真的你在使用褪黑激素的話

多半是睡前的一個小時

它的使用時間會比

一般吃安眠藥更前面一點

對 因為褪黑激素

我們會把它看成是

它是讓你的身體知道現在是晚上了

所以它等於是一種間接的效果

它不是直接促進你睡眠

我們就可以想像

生物體

日行性動物睡覺是這樣

你要先知道現在是晚上了

那先知道現在是晚上了

慢慢慢慢放鬆

然後進入睡眠狀態

所以褪黑激素是讓你知道

現在是晚上了

就等於是睡眠的前奏曲

那安眠藥

它是直接作用在你大腦

跟入睡相關的那些機制

所以它就是睡覺前吃

所以這個也是我們不太會說

如果你失眠

除非你是那種

跟生理時鐘 時差等等的

這些有影響的人

不然不會直接建議吃褪黑激素

那另外沒有效的原因

比方說很多人

他可能是因為壓力的關係

這裡的壓力

沒有 我老婆應該沒有什麼壓力

但是另外一種就

那請問一下

老婆是會想太多的人嗎

應該不是

應該不是

那你觀察她最有可能是什麼

我覺得她動太少

那她晚上會使用3C嗎

算

電腦 電視 手機

對 電視

那這個我們可以再連結一下

剛剛我們談的生理時鐘跟照光

剛剛我們談白天照光

可以讓你的生理時鐘比較穩定

那另外還有一個就是白天照光

如果你照的時間比較長

然後強度比較高的話

它還有一個效果

它可以抵消你晚上使用3C

對褪黑激素抑制的效果

對 你也知道你晚上使用3C

這個光線會抑制你的褪黑激素

這個是本來就存在的一個抑制作用

而這個抑制作用

在人體上

它有一點是比較級的概念

也就是說如果你白天你照很強

而且相對時間比較多的光線的話

那你晚上受到這個手機的影響

就會比較小

因為你可以想像

你在戶外都是1萬 lux 以上

那你手機或者是室內的光線

大約是300到500

所以在這種情況底下

你整個人的生理時鐘

就會呈現相對穩定的狀態

你的褪黑激素抑制就會比較少

但是假設有一些人

他白天不太出門

所以不太照到光

那也不太活動

那他的生理時鐘

我們會說他是處於一種比較

不明顯

我們正常就是

你白天越活動越好

晚上越不活動越好

可是如果你白天跟晚上的活動

都差不多

那他生理時鐘不明顯

他的褪黑激素的分泌

就會比較平緩

所以這也是為什麼我們會推薦

就那一些長輩

因為有一些長輩

他可能也行動也不方便

但是就算你行動不方便

你在白天的時候

還是要出去照光

還是要有一些活動

因為這樣子讓你生理時鐘

呈現一個穩定的狀態

你晚上的睡眠

褪黑激素的分泌才會穩定

那照光有說照多久

或是

陰天怎麼辦

或是大太陽的話

我可以只照五分鐘嗎

對於生理時鐘穩定的建議的話

大概至少30分鐘

很久欸

30分鐘的光

你不用在太陽底下曝曬

比如說你可以撐傘

你可以在樹蔭底下

你可以在騎樓底下

接受到的光線

閃射嘛

因為光會閃射

你接受到的光

大概也都有上千至少上萬 lux

我們一般的辦公室的光線

如果我們辦公室有開日光燈的話

那大概也只有300-500 lux 而已

所以你就可以對比

它的強度的差異

其實非常大的

可是我們人類

其實對於500跟5000 lux的光強度

你沒有那麼明顯

你是 喔比較亮

但是你不會覺得它是十倍亮

所以現代人很多失眠的

其中一個要素就是

反正我一整天都有光

可是它的光是室內的這種人造光源

那人造光源跟太陽光源的頻段

又不太一樣

所以它對我們生理時鐘穩定的效果

就又會不太一樣

這個其實在之前

2020年疫情的時候比較明顯

因為疫情不能出門

就會變成是整天都關在家

然後那個時候疫情又有壓力

那又有這種生理時鐘的問題

所以當時睡不好的人

就非常非常多

運動對於睡眠來講是好的吧

非常好

截至目前為止

如果我出去外面講座

如果有人問說老師我睡不好

怎麼樣可以幫我睡好一點

那你也知道

其實睡不好的原因百百種

那目前為止

大概可以推薦的有兩種

一種就是運動

運動在各個項目上它的統合分析

然後各個

它大概的效果都是正面的

但是

它有一個前提

就最好是白天運動

套用我們剛剛講的

人類是自行性動物

所以你在白天運動是可以

剛好可以讓你的生理時鐘

變得更穩定更強健

那如果說

可是不行啊

我白天要上班啊

我只能晚上運動怎麼辦

那通常我們的建議是

有運動總比沒運動好

所以第一個

如果你真的只能晚上運動

還是要去運動

那第二個

最好可以讓你運動的時間

在你入睡時間前面的三小時

這個是來自於

因為我們運動

你會交感神經會運作

那你交感神經運作

變比較arousal的狀態

你需要有時間讓它降下來

所以這段時間距離你入睡時間越近

它對你睡眠的影響其實就會越大

那當然這又會跟年紀有關係

博恩你的聽眾應該比較多是年輕的

不見得

就是以我為中間的一個常態分佈

對對對

對 那比較年輕的

他們受這種影響

其實確實就會比較小

因為其實大家都年輕過

我以前念大學的時候

我們晚上十點才來練系隊

我們練完

我回去還可以睡覺

然後有很多人的說法是

你睡不著就不夠累

你趕快去運動

對 所以運動讓你比較疲累

然後你就會好睡

這樣子的一個觀點

如果要完全成立的話

它必須要在白天

如果它在晚上的話

它又會有其他的

比如說年齡的因素

你運動的強度

運動的時間等等

又會有其他的因素加進來

瞭解

我覺得有點連帶著

那個超人睡眠法

我超級在乎的是個體差異

因為我就會很忌妒

不太需要睡眠的人

然後

對啊

不是

我在這個世界上的時間已經夠短

為什麼要花三分之一的時間

在模擬死亡

就是

你有沒有想像過

如果有一天

我真的有一些科技的方法

讓你可以都不用睡覺

你覺得你很高興嗎

很高興啊

我要引用

名著

鋼之鍊金術師裡面

OK

等價交換

阿爾馮斯·愛力克

他所說的一句話

你有看過那一部嗎

有

因為他變成盔甲

不用睡覺嘛

他說

眾人皆睡我獨醒的時候

是非常悲傷

是非常孤獨

就是他晚上不用睡覺的時候

其實他是非常孤獨的

那真的是他的問題

很多事情可以做

好 他沒有短影音可以滑

所以你這麼說也是

好

那可不可以不用睡覺呢

其實這件事情

一直以來都有非常多的說法

我最近

我最近去一個地方演講的時候

那就有一位聽眾

那位聽眾

目視看起來好像是七十來歲

他跟我說

他一天只要睡十五分鐘

然後我說

真的嗎

你從小就這樣

對 他說他從小就睡得非常少

那其他認識他的人

也都現場附和

說他真的睡得很少

這個因為沒有辦法做實驗

所以不曉得

好 這是第一個例子

那第二個呢

那有沒有可能

有人真的睡得很少

那最接近有科學實證的是

有一些人

他擁有短眠基因

就是他真的不用睡那麼多

因為我們一般人

一天我們成年人

我們建議睡七到九小時

平均值八嘛

可是那一些擁有短眠基因的人

他們的平均值大約是五

也就是說他們的range

是從四到六

跟睡眠相關

有一個DEC2

這個基因呢

他就發現他們家族

如果遺傳在這個基因上

帶有變異的話

他們就真的不用睡很多

另外一個呢

這個基因一剛開始被發現的時候

有一些媒體稱它為

菁英基因

哦

對

因為帶有這個基因變異

除了不用睡覺以外

除了不用睡覺以外

還有一個特色

就是他對於多工

會比較容易適應

就是你一方面講電話

一方面做別的事情

他在attention 的 switch上

就可能做得比較快

這是當時媒體的說法

那這種短眠基因

他後來的研究到目前為止

大概有四到五個不同的基因

都可以有類似的效果

可是呢

有沒有更短

到目前為止

科學實踐還沒有發現更短

就是真正從研究上操作出來的

在人類身上大約就是四到六

那這一些短眠基因的人

他們也都是從小

就是他都是睡得很少

那短眠基因的研究

目前以科技來講

它其實是非常重要的一環

因為第一個

我們人類隨著年紀的增加

我們的睡眠的效率會變差

那短眠基因

它可以呈現一種特色

就是

這一類的人

他的睡眠的效率

比一般的人還要更好

所以現在科學家就想要知道

那他到底整個的機制

是怎麼運作的

有沒有可能複製

現在動物實驗上可以複製

那如果可以的話

人類身上可不可以複製

對 所以這個是目前短眠基因

最想要操作的

我剛剛很想問一個問題

因為剛剛不是說

有個七十幾歲的老人

他一天只睡十五分鐘

可是我們

一般印象對老人

就是他們都沒有在睡覺

不是

因為老人

還是很早睡很早起

反正就是老人

有人活到越老

然後睡得越少的趨勢嗎

正常人來看的話

目前為止認為

老化對他睡眠時數

就是要睡多久這件事情

影響力也不大

現在國際的共識認為

就算你六十五歲以上

你一天至少也是要睡

七個小時左右

那為什麼會形成那種印象

第一個

因為當我們老化之後

我們夜晚的睡眠會提前

就是生理時鐘會往前跑一點

那第二個

我要修正一個說法

就是年紀比較大的人

那他維持長段睡眠的能力

會比較差

因為膀胱

對

應該說會有很多人會有聽過

就是

比如說

他可能十點睡

那他可能半夜

可能三點就會醒過來

就他不再像年輕的時候

可以一次睡滿八個小時

好 那這個其實是我們年老之後

對於睡眠長時間的這個能力變差了

但不是因為他不需要

所以也有一些研究會發現

你看那一些長輩

他雖然晚上可能睡很少

可是白天坐在那邊看電視

很容易就睡著

那白天坐在那邊看電視

很容易睡著

代表什麼

代表他睏睡度

他睡眠壓力是高的

我們以為長輩不用睡覺

可是他們是處於一種高度睏睡

就靜止下來容易睡著的狀態

所以並不是他們不需要

只是他們沒有辦法睡得那麼長而已

這個是我比較偏向是能力的衰減

因為我自己現在也是類似這種情況

我以前年輕的時候

也是可以一次睡上十個小時

可是現在我大概睡七個小時

甚至更短就會醒

我剛剛只是在想

會不會有可能是

因為年紀大了之後

睡眠自然減少

導致他們的能量失衡

然後人類才會慢慢的

邁向

但聽起來不是這樣

OK

那再回去問一下好了

就是研究那個短眠基因的人

然後他們身體

說不定有某一種機制

或他特別會合成某一種蛋白質

讓他可以清除廢物的效率比較高一點

那到時候如果我們發現

那個東西是什麼的話

會怎麼實際應用出來

該不會是吃某個補品

基因程式其實最有可能的是

透過基因編輯

去做調整

這個是我目前的想像

因為你也知道

現在有一些基因編輯的技術

所以如果假設

就是一百年後

我們真的定位了有哪幾個基因

是這個樣子

然後我們也真的可以

透過基因編輯去做的話

那麼這樣子的操作

也許是有可能

可是已經出生的人已經沒救

對不對 是只能那個受精卵

那就要看到時候

基因編輯的技術做到哪個程度了

我對基因的理解就是

你在成長過程當中

你仍然可以對基因

有一定程度的修改

這是目前表觀遺傳學的觀點

那到底這個修改可以到什麼程度

或者是我們那個基因編輯

可以到什麼程度

這個我就不清楚了

但照目前人類

我超想要的

不過我還是要說明

其實現在短眠基因的研究

其實還算很新

因為

我記得當時第一個研究

好像是2019年吧

那真的

也進展得很快

可是其實我們人類的科技

通常是這樣

你前面你會看見它的正面的效果

可是負面的效果

通常是一段時間以後才出現

所以到底它這樣修改了

那對我們人類個體的影響

或者是整體的影響

它會是什麼樣子

不知道

那我想要最後來聊一下夢好了

因為感覺夢是

睡眠裡面也會發生

但是另外一整個大分支

夢

我們剛剛開錄前有閒聊一下

夢是有意義的嗎

這句話非常引戰

夢到底有沒有意義

這件事情

就我身為一個比較偏

腦科學家的觀點的話

啊就放電嘛

它可以有意義的方式在於

你對它的解讀

而不在於夢的本身

因為我們大腦本來就會對我們內在

過往的記憶

現在的記憶

它會有一些weighting

就是有一些對你比較重要的東西

它就會比較把它

記憶的連結做比較深刻

而在晚上做夢

夢這個行為

如果以腦科學來看的話

它是一種現象

而這個現象在於你的大腦特定的區域

被激發之後

特別是那種感覺聯合區

因為我們大腦側邊就是顳頂葉交界處

那你有一區就是把感覺

還有動作

還有跟你過往的記憶都會連結在一塊

那你晚上睡覺的時候

你這一區的腦區

它在特定的情況底下被激發了

也就是說

它就會連帶的激發很多

跟感覺 跟動作 感受

跟記憶相關的腦區

然後產生了所謂的夢境的感受

而這個夢境的感受

如果透過人來解讀的話

你可能會有一些insight

就是領悟說

原來它是因為這個樣子

因為

所謂的心理治療

或是所謂的意義這件事情

它有一個核心的要件是

你到底是不是接受它

等一下

可是我剛剛比較想要問的是

它在生理上的意義是什麼

夢是幫忙排除這個疑慮

還是幫忙鞏固

我舉個例子好了

我最近非常常做的惡夢

這真的喔

很常做這個惡夢喔

我會夢見我在戰場上

已經在打仗了

然後有一個子彈就這樣

打進我胸口

大家應該都有那種

就是事情快要完蛋的那種

就是全身失溫

然後完了完了完了

我要死在這裡

完了完了

我不想死

不想死

啪 就醒來

因為這是惡夢

重複做好幾次這個夢

PTSD

它為什麼要鞏固

或是

它好像也沒有在幫忙排除

它這個

有一種說法是

夢境它確實一定程度

是幫助我們去演練

演練你有可能會發生的

一個不好的經驗

或不好的事件

所以在夢中出現那種

比較危險的情況

另外一種說法就是

當你的這個負向的經驗

就是這個情緒的經驗

或是你累積所產生出來的

這個經驗過於強大的時候

它就會卡在那邊

然後持續地停在那裡

幾年前就是有一個研究

他說這一類會重複出現夢境的人

他大腦當中晚上的時候

他關於腎上腺素的分泌

他還是會呈現一個

比較沒有停止的狀態

因為我們大腦當中的腎上腺素

它在晚上的時候應該是靜止的

特別是在速眼動睡眠的時候

它應該是幾乎沒有

可是這一類的人

他在晚上的時候

還是會一定程度的分泌

也就是說你的大腦應該要放鬆

你的大腦應該要忘掉

你需要戰爭

需要逃跑那個東西

但它仍然存在

我覺得這很有趣

因為從小到大

就我會覺得我很少做夢

但每當我做夢一定是惡夢

我幾乎沒有做過好夢

然後都是這種緊張的

比如說那個學生時期

會一直做一個夢就是

那個考試寫不完

然後就要交卷

然後考得很爛

這個是我超常做這個惡夢

幾乎到我畢業之後

5、6、7、8年

我還在做這個惡夢

那個trauma

對 這個創傷經驗很強

這個也是非常多學霸

特有的那種成長後的創傷經驗

其實我們要再釐清一下

其實你說的是你記得的夢

因為做的夢跟記得的夢

其實兩回事

我們在晚上

你大概會有4到5次的速眼動睡眠

那研究會發現你大概

只要在速眼動睡眠當中喚醒

你大概會有70%到80%的夢

換句話說 人一個晚上

平均應該會有3到4次的夢

所以差別是你記得或不記得

那為什麼你會記得呢

那其中一個原因是

你做完夢之後你醒過來

所以你才記得

那為什麼會醒過來呢

一個部分就是

那是你的最後一個夢

就是因為你會越來越接近凌晨

那最後一個夢呢

它在我們整個睡眠結構當中

還有一個特色

就是

你越接近睡眠後半的夢境

它的情緒性會越強

然後它的劇情會越詭異

會越奇怪

所以

多半如果你是在

比較後期所做的夢

然後它的情緒張力又高的話

你醒過來就比較容易記得

回應你剛剛那個問題的話

比較簡單的回答是

你不是沒有做好夢

只是好夢沒有強到讓你記起來

為什麼我不能做一個很強烈的好夢

對 這就是人類非常辛苦的地方

跟我們整個生物體的機制有關

因為生物體本來就是對負向的事件

他會比較關注嘛

因為負向跟生存有關係

你做春夢跟你生存沒關係

做春夢只是讓你爽而已

但是做壞的夢

那些生存相關的夢

跟你活下來是有關的

所以我覺得很多東西

都是朝向這樣子的機制去設計

所以當你在睡眠當中

負向的情緒越強烈

它其實一定程度會影響到你的生理

就比方說你在夢中被打到了

然後其實你的心跳

真的心跳就會變快

你看過那個全面啟動

全面啟動當中講的

你在夢中的人如果被打到了

或者是你在夢中真的掛了

那你真的人也會掛

這個其實是一定程度的

你的生理跟你的夢境會有連結

對 所以在這種情況底下

負向經驗情緒很強的

它就容易讓你arousal

那arousal就是容易讓你醒來

你醒來你就會記得

那關於那種全人類

幾乎大家都共同有做過的夢

就是心理學上面是怎麼去解釋

比如說什麼從很高的地方一直掉落

欸 有做過這個夢嗎

應該說這一類的夢境

在海裡面游泳

然後醒來就尿床

這種

海裡面尿床

最好是只有我

有做這些夢

你們沒有從很高的地方

一直掉一直掉一直掉

很少

我很少啦

應該說如果以人的經驗去詮釋的話

他好像也多半會跟他的壓力

跟他最近所產生的整個不平衡

生活上的不平衡有關

那至於你剛剛講的在海裡面游泳

然後尿床這件事情

這個其實跟我們前面講的

你在夢中的生理感受

會連結你的夢境

對啊

因為當你膀胱越來越滿的時候

你的身體會給你一個訊息

跟水相關的訊息

跟想尿尿相關的訊息

所以這個訊息一定程度的

會進入到你的夢境

然後他在夢中尿下去了

他真正的床上也尿下去了

對 所以這個比較偏向是

你真正的身體的這個生理訊號

然後進入到夢中

而這個其實也有一些研究

是外在的環境

他也可以進入夢中

比方說曾經有一個研究

他會讓人在那邊睡覺

然後就偵測他進入速眼動睡眠

然後就在他的臉上灑水

就用那種花灑

就霧霧的那一種灑水

然後他就發現

如果他這麼操作的話

大約42%的人

你把他喚醒

就掃完水一段時間把他喚醒

問他說你剛做什麼夢

他會說他夢中有水這個元素

就很像是比方說

我本來夢到我在跟博恩錄音

那突然不曉得為什麼

那個攝影棚就噴水

就是

本來的夢境裡面是沒水的

但是當你做這個操作以後

水的元素會跑進去

這也跟全面啟動那部電影類似

所以

這個其實是現在有一些的

關於夢境的研究

知道內外在的訊息

會影響到夢境的內容

那也有人會用這種方法去操作

就你剛剛不是說嗎

我很想要做好夢

那也有一些說法是說

有特定的音樂

塞巧克力給他吃

巧克力

睡眠的時候可能不容易

因為睡眠的時候操作比較多

會用氣味跟用聲音

那有一些說法是特定的音樂

在速眼動睡眠播放

它透過這個音樂進入你的夢中

比較容易讓你做好夢

但是這個目前為止還沒有共識

就研究上沒有共識

比較多的是商業上的說法

而這個說法你聽起來

好像也是make sense

因為音樂會進入夢中

聲音會進入夢中

只是

它對我們所謂的好夢的影響力

有沒有那麼大

這個可能又是另外一個issue

我先問一個問題

然後再問一個連帶

可能比較有爭議性的問題

就是我有一個朋友

然後他好像跑去讀

應該是弗洛伊德跟夢有關的東西

好像有讀到說

這個夢它發生的

都是比較淺層的

也就是說

需要用到比較複雜推理

或是條件子句這種概念

不會出現在夢裡面

你不會做一個夢

然後比如說

假如明天怎麼樣

我就會怎麼樣

沒有這種情形

我說喔是嗎

然後我回去觀察了一陣子

然後就發現說

欸沒有啊

我的夢裡面還是有這種假設語氣啊

可是我很好奇的是

我們現在所知

夢它牽扯到的腦區

是不是真的是比較低認知的

曾經有一個研究是這樣

它讓人睡覺之後

然後用特定頻率的腦波

就穿顱磁刺激的方法

然後也是一樣打在那個

大概是頂葉跟顳葉交界處

就我們剛剛講的

感覺動作聯合區這個地方

然後透過頻率的刺激的話

它可以讓你產生夢境的感受

而且不管你在哪一個睡眠階段

你在速眼動睡眠也可以

你在非速眼動睡眠

我只要打下去

你就會出現夢境的感受

你也可以想像

如果你單純打在這個地方的話

它確實它是跟那一些記憶啦

感覺啦

動覺相關

那另外你剛剛講的那些邏輯推理

這個多半在前額葉嘛

那有一些研究的確也發現

夢境當中呢

主要會活躍的一個

就是我們剛剛講的

比較頂葉跟顳葉交界處這個地方

那有一些人他的前額葉

也會稍微活躍

那前額葉如果你越活躍的話

其實你對於

剛剛我們講的邏輯推理

然後甚至是自我認知

它相較之下就會比較強嘛

那關於這個我就要提

有一種比較特別的夢境

清明夢

Lucid Dream

你曾經在夢中知道

你自己正在做夢的嗎

是是是

曾經有

有有

對 那有一些研究

他就是想要知道

在夢中知道自己在做夢

跟夢中不知道自己在做夢的差別是什麼

那他的結論就是

那一些在夢中他做清明夢的人

他的前額葉會明顯的比較活躍

當然顳頂葉交界處這個地方也是

那如果用比較簡單的版本來說明的話

你之所以會做清明夢

就是你的大腦前額葉

跟某一些特定做夢的腦區

比一般人還要活躍

那相反的來講就是

你該放鬆的腦區沒有放鬆

所以你就比較會在夢中

可以知道自己在做夢

甚至你可以控制你的夢境

對 因為高階的可以控制夢境

甚至你可以夢中夢

夢中夢這個議題

連結我們回去說

那個比如說以榮格或弗洛伊德的角度

夢有沒有意義

那我就很想知道

你所謂的夢有沒有意義

是包含哪一種夢呢

你不知道自己正在做夢的夢

跟你知道自己做夢的夢

那你知道自己做夢的夢又有分

你知道自己正在做夢

但是你可不可以控制

對

如果你可以控制的話

你可以控制的夢境是有意義的嗎

那還叫夢嗎

對

那感覺你已經醒了

夢中夢到底哪一個夢才有意義呢

那還有我們剛剛有講

我們從外在的訊息

可以影響你的夢境內容

對不對

好那如果你是被影響了

那這個夢是有意義的嗎

你應該要怎麼解讀

對 所以這個就是從神經科學的角度

我們可以看到夢的很多不同的面向

夢的展現它有非常多元的形式

也許

也許某一些

我們透過清醒之後的解讀

它確實展現了潛意識的某一些層面

但是其他是不是都有

就我現在的觀點來講

如果我們現在這麼多的操作方法

通通放進去的話

它其實就是一個

很難說它有意義的程度

好那

再講另外一個

做夢的科學的研究者

他們也實際要定義過

什麼叫做夢

他們定義是什麼

比方說 大家覺得

如果你在睡覺的時候

你有飄過一個畫面

那這個畫面飄過去大概只有兩三秒

靜止的畫面

這是夢嗎

不是

對嘛

那如果有一個意念飄過去

這是夢嗎

應該不是

那如果夢中你感受你經歷了一件事

但是沒有很強烈的情緒

就是比如說你在夢中寫字

你也沒有畫面

你就感覺到你有在寫字

這算夢嗎

應該算

到底什麼樣的感受才叫夢

所以最後有一群做夢的科學家

他們的定義是這樣

夢境當中

你必須要有一定程度的情緒

然後它的劇情必須要有一點怪誕

或者是在明顯的現實的情境

就是你不能只有什麼意念飄過去

畫面飄過去

這個通通不算

對

好啦那我講這個

其實也是想要讓大家知道

睡眠當中

你出現的那些類似

意識表現的那些現象

它其實不是只有做夢跟沒做夢

沒有這麼單一

它更像會是一個頻譜

就是有一些很複雜的

它可能有強烈的情緒

怪誕的劇情

但是往這邊一點

它可能是普通的劇情

沒什麼情緒

再往這邊一點

它可能就單純只有畫面

再往這邊一點

它可能就只有一個意念

所以

你所謂的夢境到底要切在哪邊

那它才算有意義

我自己目前的觀點是這樣

如果是那一種

你自然發生的夢境

然後你醒來還記得

甚至是你剛剛講

有會重複出現的意義

我認為這個對我們人來講

它確實是有重要性的

夢境就很像是一剛開始大腦

你可能隨意激發

那隨意激發當中

可能就有一些線索連結到

你可能過往或是你當下

最近這段時間一些重要的經驗

或重要的情緒經驗

然後它被激發出來

它的程度又強烈到

會讓你清醒過來還記得

我會把它解讀成

這樣子的一個情緒經驗或記憶

對我這個人

對我大腦而言

它是判斷它的重要性是高的

我試著去解讀

記憶背後跟我最近的生活

跟我過去的生命脈絡有什麼關係

那如果我可以正確地去評估出來

我可能就會知道說

喔原來

有什麼事情

我的意識可能一直試著要去忽略它

那如果真的

可以給我這樣子的提醒的話

那我就會說

喔好

那我的潛意識告訴我

我應該要這麼做

所以我願意

去聽從我的insight

請注意這個insight

仍然是你解讀出來的insight

我願意聽從我解讀出來的insight

去做一些改變

好吧 我只是覺得

因為剛剛有強調說

它仍然是經過你自行解讀

之後的一層意義

所以對我來講

這個刺激

就跟任何你聽到一首歌

或是你看到

就假如說你聽到一個歌

那歌詞寫到你心裡面去

然後說

我從來不知道我這麼重視這件事情

它的意義好像跟夢的意義

對我來講是一樣的

不會一樣

因為夢是你產生的

好吧

因為確實你聽到歌

你會有一些insight

就因為這個歌

可能牽動了你的某一個記憶

或牽動了你某一個感受

所以你才會出現

剛剛你說的那個感動

或者是insight

那夢境它跟歌不一樣的地方是

它比較像是你的大腦

所出現的這個訊息

它不是你可以控制的訊息

但是是你產生的

所以我們人自然而然

會對於我產生的

這個內在的訊息

會比較願意相信

瞭解

不過我最近有一個兒子的小故事

我也覺得

假如說你內心很單純

然後你也很

誠實地面對

你喜歡跟不喜歡什麼東西的話

這個夢的解讀好像也

不是那麼需要

反正我兒子他最近

會開始做夢了

我很驚訝

就是他三歲

然後他會做夢

他會記得夢

他也會敘述他做什麼夢給我聽

然後他最近有一次醒來

他就說

爸爸我剛做夢

我夢到

你帶我去7-11

然後你買糖果給我吃

然後我想說

ok

的確是做夢

就是他很清楚

他喜歡吃糖果

他的慾望

對

他想要我帶他去7-11

夢境的內容都是記憶

而記憶就會牽涉到幾點

就是他有沒有可能被誘導

或是他有沒有可能

因為我當下的某一些

想望

我想要的東西

而去

修改他的夢境

所以當然我覺得

孩子在很純真的底下

他不會有這種

他比較不會有這種情況

他可能更多的是

忠實地去轉述他夢境的內容

可是如果放在成人的話

其實你在清醒時候

你接觸到的訊息

或者是

別人給你的誘導

他一定程度的

就會影響到你的夢境

其實在這邊

我想要表達的是

做夢境的研究

其實老實說

真的非常的困難

因為他跟你的記憶好不好有關係

他跟你的表達能力好不好有關係

表達能力好的人

他就可以講了很多

所以這一切都是

我們在談所謂的夢

到底有沒有意義

以及夢要怎麼研究

等等等等的

我覺得目前都還非常

困難的一個地方

是不是就放著就好了

就不要去探索

對啊

因為這很難

可是你知道嗎

其實在我開始學心理學之後

我自己的一個觀點是

夢是解開人類心智能力的

最後一塊拼圖

你不覺得現在大部分的心理科學

都研究清醒

清醒的意識狀態

對不對

那後來從睡眠科學開始展開以後

我們也知道睡眠的時候

你大腦也有一些運作

而你睡覺的時候

這些運作會回過來

影響你白天的心智功能

可是睡眠的時候

又有一個很特殊的情境

就是夢境

夢境到底算不算意識呢

當然這我們可以有很多的討論

但至少你的所謂的夢境的展現

是我們心智的一個

很特別的一種表現方法

而這個表現方法

到底為什麼要這樣子

為什麼沒有被演化掉

如果從演化學的角度

我們說必然有它的功能

那它的功能到底是什麼

那目前為止都還非常的未知

雖然有一些功能論的說法

但是還是很難

就是整個涵蓋說

為什麼我們仍然有這些現象

所以我一直覺得

如果我們人類的研究

一直到我們可以解開

夢境的秘密的話

那個時候我們對於整個人類的心智

應該也是差不多都瞭解了

因為夢的秘密實在太困難了

像那個Space的Final Frontier

這個夢是人類意識的

Final Frontier這樣

還有一個問題

我不是問說

那個運動對於睡眠來講很重要

然後你說出去外面

基本上會給兩個建議

給睡眠的

然後一個是運動

另外一個是什麼

你居然還記得這件事情

對啊

我要再為你鼓掌

覺得 欸

呵呵

另外一個其實就是類似

Mindfulness

那樣子的練習

就是正念

或是靜坐或禪修或瑜伽

這一類的

這一類的練習

對

因為這主要是來自於現在很多人

我還以為會是什麼

那個什麼均衡飲食這種

不是

是Mindfulness

其實均衡飲食多半是

我是預設大家營養上

沒有什麼太大的差異啦

在這個前提底下

我們多半會給類似

Mindfulness的建議

這個其實主要是來自於現代人

在晚上的時候其實不太會放鬆

因為晚上你還是一樣在照光

還是一樣在看3C產品

所以理想上我們正常的夜晚

應該要像那個農耕時代

就晚上的時候光就很弱

然後你幾乎就不會動腦

但是我們現代人到現在

我們的大腦是幾乎醒著的時候

都是持續運作的

那久了以後它會形成一種慣性

就是你的大腦會覺得

只要醒著你就要一直工作

一直工作一直工作

那就會有一種

類似忘了

或是不知道什麼狀態

才是放鬆的狀態

那久了以後它會不利於入睡

那入睡我們會說

你必須要在睡覺前

你的大腦

如果簡化的說法就是

你的大腦要放鬆

可是你這個慣性一旦形成

你的大腦就不容易放鬆

那不容易放鬆你就不容易入睡

所以目前對於靜坐或Mindfulness

或類似這種相關的研究都發現

你透過這種練習

可以讓你的大腦比較容易關機

那這個部分我要再補充一下

其實

我們大腦當中

關於睡眠這件事情

其實很多人會覺得說

我們大腦當中有一個開關

而這個開關呢

打開你就清醒

關掉你就睡覺

但其實不是

我們的機制是有兩個開關

一個開關是管清醒

一個開關是管睡眠

所以

理想情況是

比如這邊清醒這邊睡眠

白天的時候清醒程度比較高

清醒打開

睡眠的就要關掉

那等到你慢慢慢慢越來越久以後

你清醒的要越來越往下

越來越關掉

那睡眠的越來越打開

所以等到晚上睡覺前

睡眠的完全打開

清醒的完全關閉

所以你就很好的睡覺

對不對

那我們剛剛描述的那種情況就是

你白天的時候清醒的時候打開

對不對

那你隨著你的清醒時間越來越長

你睡眠壓力越來越多

所以你睡眠系統打開了

可是你清醒的部分沒有降下來

或是降的不夠多

那在這種情況底下

它就會變成是你不容易入睡

那這也是現代人

失眠最大宗的一種情況

這個是其中一種問題

那再結合另外一個就是

當你睡不好的時候

你會做什麼行為來幫助你入睡

那這個就會分軌

分軌的意思是

如果你做的是正確的行為

它就會幫助你回復

但是如果你做的是錯誤的行為

它就會讓你睡得越來越不好

我可以想像所有人都是滑手機

哈哈哈哈

對 但講到滑手機啊

其實

你也很難一言以蔽之說

滑手機或3C絕對不好

你知道前一陣子

我讀過一個研究

就是

對特定族群來講

睡覺前30分鐘看一點電視

對他們來講有助於睡眠

哪一類人呢

就是他是白天大腦就持續運轉

高速運轉的人

那你就可以想像

對那種人來講

他在看電視

看那些比如無腦的劇

那他就會覺得說

這個對我來講就是放鬆

所以它其實仍然是一種相對的

你有一個刺激可以幫助他

不要想那麼多

然後只在那邊看無腦劇

所以對他來講

他仍然是比較可以放鬆

可是呢

你如果就整個機制來講

它並不是最好的放鬆方法

只是對那一些人來講

他還是放鬆

那如果你可以學會更深層的

就像我們剛剛講的

靜坐啦 禪修啦 瑜伽啦

Mindfulness 等等的

這些都是更深度的睡眠

如果你可以透過練習

可以掌握這種方法的話

那你睡覺前的這個清醒的開關

就比較容易關掉

那比較容易關掉之後

你再把那一些生理時鐘啊

睡眠壓力啊

這個都調節好

你的睡眠就比較容易展開

所以現代人的失眠的問題

你要說是壓力嗎

也的確是壓力

但是呢

壓力之後

你的處理方法

有沒有朝向正確的方向

這個才是大部分

在做失眠認知行為治療

最關鍵的地方

所以

我們常常聽到說

你就看電視就好啊

運動就好啊

什麼什麼就好

那因為每一個人

在睡眠這個因素當中

他出錯的地方就不太一樣

所以你很難有

一言以蔽之的方法啦

我可以想像某些東西

對睡眠是有幫助的

比如說

那個窗簾真的要全暗

或是燈要全部關起來這樣子

因為光我很明顯的知道

跟睡眠有關

可是我看到你寫的是一篇文章

就是說

溫度也會影響

對

高溫

對

我看到之後我就覺得說

哇 那個

在那邊強調說什麼

現在冷氣要開26 27

胡說八道

睡不好啊

這個又會戰起來

誰在乎地球啊

我要睡覺

其實跟我們的溫度調節是有關係的

我們的體溫往下降

這裡指的體溫是核心的體溫

核心的體溫往下降

它也會讓你比較容易產生睡意

所以換句話說

你當然在一個比你的體溫

還要低溫的環境

那會幫助你體溫往下降

那個定義很廣

這樣只要37度以下就算好睡

但是可以影響到我們的核心體溫的

通常要更低

那研究是這樣

我們有的時候會看到有一些

引用西方國家研究的

他們會說大概18度

但是其實

哇

你就可以知道18度

對我們臺灣人來講

超冷

對

所以後來的

一直尿尿

後來的一些研究

我自己的解讀是這樣

這會需要看你這一個人

本來生活的環境

我們以前教書的學校當中

有一個日本的教授

然後他的辦公室超冷

我每次進他辦公室

我說你不會冷

然後他穿短袖

這樣剛剛好

對 所以不同國家他們生活的

本來的環境

就會影響到我們剛剛講的

最適睡眠的溫度

那些西方國家有一些研究出來

是大概18度左右

不過我後來也有看到有一些

在亞洲國家的

比如說中國的

然後馬來西亞他們的研究

其實大約是大概23度

不錯

對 但是最佳是不是23度

那你也知道

其實所有的行為科學的研究

都是找一批人

然後來做

那找的人多半是成年人

就是年輕人

所以你這樣子23度

是適用在所有人嗎

其實很難說

所以多半我們給的建議是

那一個環境

第一個就是你的溫度

你要覺得涼爽

舒適

然後溼度不要高

那因為溼度高

你的散熱就會變得比較不容易

所以在這種情境底下

你的入睡是比較容易展開的

那如果過冷

像比方說我如果在18度

我一定會覺得超冷

在那種情況底下

就會比較不好睡

瞭解

今天非常感謝

宇哲老師分享這麼多

很有趣的

有夢的

有生理的

如何入睡的

也有些最實用的

就是正念

運動

跟

冷氣可以調冷一點點

我個人最喜歡

今天再次非常非常感謝宇哲老師

謝謝

那今天這集博音錄到這邊

vs 中間沒有點

我們下集再見

掰掰

Key Vocabulary

Vocabulary	Meanings
sleep /sliːp/ A1	verb - to rest with eyes closed for a period of time noun - a state of rest
brain /breɪn/ B1	noun - the organ inside the head that controls thoughts
dream /driːm/ A2	noun - a series of images or thoughts during sleep verb - to experience dreams
experiment /ɪkˈspɛrɪmənt/ B1	noun - a scientific test to find out something verb - to try something new to see what happens
animal /ˈænɪməl/ A1	noun - a living creature that is not human
light /laɪt/ A1	noun - brightness from the sun or a lamp adjective - not heavy
energy /ˈɛnərdʒi/ A2	noun - the strength or power to do something
memory /ˈmɛməri/ A2	noun - the ability to remember things
system /ˈsɪstəm/ A2	noun - a set of connected things working together
pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ A2	noun - external force or stress
exercise /ˈɛksərsaɪz/ A1	noun - physical activity to keep fit verb - to do exercise
gene /dʒiːn/ B2	noun - a part of DNA that controls inheritance
caffeine /kæˈfiːn/ B2	noun - a substance in coffee that keeps you awake
adenosine /əˈdɛnəsiːn/ C1	noun - a chemical that promotes sleep
melatonin /ˌmɛləˈtoʊnɪn/ C1	noun - a hormone that regulates sleep
mindfulness /ˈmaɪndfəlnəs/ C1	noun - the practice of being present in the moment
temperature /ˈtɛmpərətʃər/ A2	noun - the degree of heat or cold
clock /klɑːk/ A1	noun - a device that shows time
rhythm /ˈrɪðəm/ B1	noun - a regular pattern of movement or sound
weight /weɪt/ A1	noun - the heaviness of something verb - to measure how heavy something is

Key Grammar Structures

• 如果正常情況底下，老鼠大概經過四到六個禮拜就會死亡。

  ➔ Conditional clause (if… then…)

  ➔ The word "如果" introduces a conditional clause meaning “if”.

• 因為不睡覺會導致熱量調節失衡，所以老鼠會變瘦。

  ➔ Cause‑and‑effect construction (because… therefore…)

  ➔ The word "因為" shows the reason, and "所以" shows the result.

• 即使牠吃很多，體重卻變成本來的一半。

  ➔ Concessive clause (even if… still…)

  ➔ The phrase "即使" introduces a concession, while "卻" shows the unexpected result.

• 不管你是早上還是晚上，只要不睡覺就會死。

  ➔ Correlative conjunction (no matter… as long as…)

  ➔ The phrase "不管…還是…" means “no matter whether”, and "只要…就…" means “as long as… then”.

• 只要攝取高熱量的食物，老鼠的壽命可以延長。

  ➔ Conditional clause with "只要…就…" (as long as… then…)

  ➔ The word "只要" introduces the condition, and "就" signals the result.

• 他的大腦會把白天產生的代謝物「清掉」。

  ➔ Resultative complement (verb + -掉)

  ➔ The verb "清" combined with "掉" forms the resultative complement "清掉", meaning “to clean away”.

• 雖然白天活動很多，但晚上仍然需要休息。

  ➔ Contrastive conjunction (although… but…)

  ➔ The word "雖然" sets up a concession, and "但" introduces the contrast.

• 如果你在白天運動，生理時鐘會更穩定。

  ➔ Conditional clause with "如果…，…" (if…, then…)

  ➔ The particle "如果" introduces the condition, while the main clause follows it.