– English Lyrics

Lyrics & Translation

[English]

Karen Jeanpierre spent three years as

the face of the Biden administration.

She was the press secretary, the person

who turns up in the White House every

day and whose face becomes very familiar

to viewers of television as the person

who is putting the points that the

administration wants to put to the

American people and indeed to the wider

world. She has written a book. The book

is called Independent, a look inside the

broken white house, outside the party

line. So she has left the Democratic

Party. She's become an independent but

she is very much still a supporter of

the party and as she is telling the

world the party needs to change. The

party needs to be the kind of party that

she can support in the future. I sat

down with her for a conversation which

you can hear now.

[Music]

>> Americast

from BBC News.

Karen Jean Pierre, thank you so much for

joining us. Welcome to the podcast.

>> Thank you so much for having me, Justin.

>> We we get a load of of um feedback from

people who listen and almost

always almost every week, almost every

episode of our podcast, they're saying,

"What's happened to the Democrats? Where

are they? Who's speaking for them? When

are they going to resurface?" So, I I

want to get to all the rest of what

you've written about um in in a second,

but can we start there just from what

what's your take on where the party is

at the moment?

>> Well, what my take is is that the party

is lost. I feel as if the party has lost

their soul. One of the things that

concerned me very early on in the Trump

administration was when the the

administration was trying to push

forward their nominees, some very

unqualified nominees, and you had

Democrats in the Senate who basically

rubber stamped Trump's nominees, which

for me sent a signal that you they

weren't going to fight. Project 2025 was

loud and clear. And the fact that they

were not prepared for a Trump

administration the moment he stepped in

was concerning. And now what I'm seeing

even more that's more concerning is

there's just continues to be no fight

because mentioning them doesn't poll

test well. They're throwing communities

under the bus. And so that's concerning

because we're supposed to be the

Democratic party is supposed to be a big

tent party. When you think about the

LGBTQ community, when you think about

migrants and immigrants and you don't

see enough fight enough enough of a

we're going to stand up and fight for

this community and they're silent or

they're not, you know, they're not

really coming up with a strategy. That's

concerning and it is very much, oh,

okay, that doesn't pull test, you know,

well, oh, the the country is afraid of

migrants, so therefore we're not going

to be mentioning them or fighting for

them. Oh, you know what? the LGBTQ

community. We can't we really can't

support the LGBTQ community because no

one wants, you know, Novo wants some of

the policies or some of the issues or

some of the freedoms that the community

should be having. And one thing to know

about me, Justin, is that I'm obviously

a black woman. I also am part of the

queer community. I'm also an immigrant.

And when you hear things like that about

communities that you participate in,

that you're part in, then you feel like

you're not representing and no one's

fighting for you. And just like you were

hearing when I came out of the

administration, the Biden Harris

administration very obviously in

January, very early on this year, I was

hearing from people. They were saying to

me, "What's going on? Where is the

fight? Where is the fight? Why aren't we

ready?" And that actually led to me

trying to figure out my voice in this

moment in the book. I mean just to take

one issue then which is is is biological

males playing in in in women's sports.

So that's an an issue that really harmed

the Democrats, didn't it, during the

election? Are you suggesting that on

that issue the Democrats just say,

"Look, we think it's a moral issue. We

think people who are trans should be

able to to choose where they play their

sports. We're going to stick to it. And

if you don't like that, then don't vote

for us. I mean, isn't that

>> Well, here's the thing, Justin. I think

I

>> way of just committing electoral

suicide.

>> I I actually I actually disagree because

we should not go down a rabbit hole

because Republicans are telling us don't

say woke or or this issue or that issue.

We should stand on moral ground and

really really really try to do our best

to protect people who feel vulnerable.

It's not about having a debate. Don't

have the debate. Just say where you

stand and move forward and focus on

things that will move the country

forward. Focus on the economy.

>> Yeah. But you'll be asked about those

things, weren't you?

>> Yeah. But here's the thing. I mean, I

wasn't part of the campaign, so I wasn't

part I I can't speak to their their uh

strategy. Obviously, I was part of the

uh part of the uh as White House press

secretary. I was speaking for the

president uh and I was part of the

government and the white house and I

think what I am trying to say is that

there are issues there have been issues

in the past again civil rights issues

human rights issues that were not

popular that were not popular where the

country wasn't there but it is it cannot

there has to be a time where it's not

about politics where it has to be about

your moral compass to doing the right

thing and standing up. Let me ask you

then are are there are there any is

there anyone in the party at the moment

who who you think is doing that? So we

on the on the podcast quite recently we

focused on the campaigns in um u

Virginia and in New Jersey these very

important gubernatorial campaigns. Um

and you've got two I mean I suppose you

could describe them in shorthand as

moderate Democrats uh in Spamberger and

Micah Cheryl who are who are going for

those and likely to win. And of course

also and we've done a an entire episode

on Zoran Mandani and this incredible

campaign.

>> Yeah. Very different story. Yeah.

>> Does do do any of those well do any who

excites you from there? Do or do do any

of them?

>> Look, Mom Donnie obviously is an

incredible incredibly impressive

candidate. He has managed to get young

people excited and he has he has done

something that you don't see politicians

certainly Democrats doing which is going

directly to the American people when he

was riding the train and having

conversations with people they felt

heard they felt listened to they felt

seen and so those are the things that

are that are missing and I think there

there are things that he's doing that

certainly on the national level

Democratic leadership could listen to

that and take some direction on how to

communicate with people. I believe

Democrats should go into Republican

district and talk to a Republicans of

Republican voters about the economy. I

believe they should also be standing in

front of a hospital that's about to shut

down because of GOP hikes and have a

press conference and say, "Hey, this is

what's going on." There's so many things

that they can do so that voters see them

and see them fighting for them. And I

think that is one of the things from

Mumani that has been quite impressive

and something for them to to learn from.

>> And are you happy to see the Mumani kind

of candidate in a place like New York

where it looks as if he can win and win

big, but also a completely different

sort of candidate. So, one of the things

we've been discussing on the podcast is

this business of whether you should run,

for instance, people who are not keen on

abortion in some states where there are

more conservative voters, including

voters who used to vote Democrat but

don't anymore. I mean, I guess West

Virginia is an obvious example, or

should you have a kind of um litmus test

of what is acceptable and what isn't

acceptable? Where do you where do you

stand on that? I look I believe that

right now

if you are a part of a community or if

you identify in what whatever way just

know that if when they come for one they

come for all of us which means we have

to stand together. We have to stand

together. There's a large fight ahead of

us and if we don't do that then we're

going to be in a world of hurt as a

country as a people. And so what I want

to see, I think what's important is that

you have candidates that listen,

acknowledge, and speak to what people

really care about. Look, one of the best

examples that I can give you, um, and

it's not even coming from elected

officials. It's coming from the people,

the people of this country. When 7

million people came out for the no kings

rally not too long ago and it was the

third one which meant that it grew by

millions. That is telling you like like

elected officials these leadership

should see okay this is where the this

is where 7 million people came out. This

is where many many voices are. They're

afraid about what's going on in our

democracy and that is something to tap

into. I actually believe we need a

functioning two-party system in order to

have a democracy. You learn that in

polyai and what's happening now. Our

system is broken and we have too much of

politics in it and we need to bring

people power in it. And so that is what

matters to me. How do we get people more

engaged, more involved, especially young

people. Young people are becoming more

independent by the day.

>> Right. Talking of saving democracy, um I

mean one of the things you write in the

book that I think will amaze people in

particular is that you you didn't think

that Kamela Harris after she took over

from Joe Biden, you didn't think she was

going to win. And I I think a lot of

people will say what what if if you

didn't think she was going to win and if

other people didn't think she was going

to why on earth did you run her?

>> Wait, first of all, I didn't run

anybody. I don't have that power. So

thank you so much. But but the rest but

but Justin let me let me I'm going to

lay this out for you. Um two things

could be true and the two things are

>> I was proud that she was running. I was

I think she's more than qualified to be

president of the United States. And I

think she did a phenomenal job in those

107 days. And as a black woman who lives

in this country and walks through this

world, I could also have doubts because

of my personal experiences in walking in

this body and looking like the way that

I do. You know, only people who've been

otherred or live in, you know, live in

in spaces where they don't see

themselves can understand that. It is it

is very it is a it is a feeling that is

sad uh but very real. Very very real.

and she actually touches on that a

little bit too as well in her book uh

from what I understand and I've heard

her speak to it as well. But that is

just the reality. Those two things could

be true. You could think someone is more

than qualified and able to do the job

because they're qualified not just

because of the way they look, but then

also the other side because of the way

they look. You're like, "Oh my gosh, is

the country ready for this?" It's not

don't forget as you know but as you know

in 2016 in 2016 in 2016 we had Hillary

Clinton so it's not it's not un it's not

um you know it's not out of the norm for

me to have thought that.

Yeah, but I mean I suppose that's the

point, isn't it? that so many people

around the world who are so distressed

about Donald Trump coming to power again

and all that you you large you as

Democrats which you were of course at

the time prominent one that you were

warning the world about Donald Trump

just run anyone the actual identity

stuff if you think it's holding your

back you back the thing to do was to

have the open contest was to persuade

Joe Biden to drop out earlier was to do

something do something and He never did

anything.

>> Well, first of all, it the you know, I

was not on the campaign. I was the

spokesperson for the president of the

United States. So, but I will say this

in the loss of 2024, I agree with you.

We all we all should take

accountability. Not, you know, not just

the Democratic leadership. All of us

should take some accountability and I do

as well in what happened. I believe in

the time it this the summer of 2024 the

way Democrats behaved actually hurt us

actually did hurt us and remember we had

a primary 14 million people came out

they voted for Biden and Harris 14

million people that's not nothing there

was a process that went through and a

decision was made and I think that uh

the decision by the Democratic party was

made and I think that did hurt us and

you have to be hopeful in the moment

that we're in. And she ran a fantastic

campaign. She just did. But there are

many reasons why it didn't work out.

>> Isn't it Isn't it in a sense, isn't it

obvious why you had a a a presidential

candidate who all the polls said was

going to lose and he and he didn't get

out at the right time. And then when he

did get out, to be kind to her, it

didn't leave her enough time to run a

really good campaign. But the party

could have intervened earlier, couldn't

it? Or or could it not? Was it just

impossible? You were there on the

inside.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, just a couple

things. There was an incumbency issue. I

mean, you saw that with other G7, G10

countries. There was an incumbency

issue. COVID, the economy. So, there was

there was an incumbency issue and we saw

that across the world and the economy

even though it was improving, people

weren't feeling it. And so, it's not

just the person, it's the party. It's

the party that has the power. So there

was that that existed in 2023. And I

always like to take people back to 2023

when the when President Joe Biden made

the decision. It was a different time.

Party leadership was encouraging to him

to to run because of how co um pardon me

because of the midterms and how the

midterms turned out. It wasn't a red

wave. It wasn't as bad as we thought. It

was a historic midterm for an incumbent

first midterm for a for a president. And

so that was part of it. He was the only

person to have beaten Donald Trump. He

objectively had a good couple of years

of his presidency. And so those were the

decisions that went in. Again, party

leadership were encouraging him to run.

And so that's why that decision was

made. Joe Biden is going to write his

book. He will have his he will tell his

story. I can't wait to read it. And he

will lay out what his thought process

is. But we can't forget the facts that

existed during that time in making that

decision.

>> Final thought from you, Karine. Who

would you?

>> And thank you for saying and thank you

for Widow.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was going to say

thank you for saying my name prep like

so. Well, Karen, thank you so much. Not

many people do that. So, I appreciate

that.

>> Well, well, we do our best. We don't

always get it right. I have to say we're

equally getting it very wrong. But

>> I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go to your

question. Justin's apologies.

>> Yeah. Just a final just a final thought.

Um people keep asking us who's going to

run, who who should win, who's going to

run, who what what's your thought about

name names.

>> So, here's the thing, Justin. I don't

want to talk about 2028. Not with you,

just in general, because we got to get

out of 2025. We got to get out of 2026.

We have a president who is already right

now in 2025 is saying that he wants his

justice department to monitor elections

that are happening just this year. We

have a president who is essentially

saying he's going to cheat uh in 2026

with the federal races that are

occurring.

>> 26 will be a fair election

next year. Are they going to be free and

fair? I I don't know because he's being

very One thing that we have learned

about the Trump administration is when

they say something, believe them. And

just last week, we had Steve Bannon.

Steve Bannon say, "Hey, we're going to

we're preparing for a third term of

Trump." I mean, you saw what he did with

the East Wing just last last week,

demolishing it. That doesn't seem like

somebody who's ready to leave. He's

going to build a ballroom. Who's he's

going to name it after himself? You

know, and so we have real issues

happening right now that if we don't get

on top of it. If we don't get on top of

it, things are going to run away from us

or be stolen or be taken from us and we

didn't prepare for it. So that is that

is my genuine fear. Not just me. Many

other people have this fear.

>> Karen Jean-Pierre, been a real pleasure

to talk to you. Thank you very much for

sparing us the time.

>> Thanks Justin. appreciate it anytime.

>> That's it for now. If you want to hear

other episodes of Americas, they are all

available wherever you get your

podcasts. For now, though, bye-bye.

[Music]

[Music]

Key Vocabulary

Vocabulary	Meanings
administration /ədˈmɪnɪˌstreɪʃən/ B1	noun - the process of managing or governing
press /prɛs/ A2	noun - the media, especially newspapers verb - to urge or push for something
secretary /ˈsɛkrəˌtɛri/ A2	noun - a person who manages records, letters, etc.
independent /ˌɪndɪˈpɛndənt/ B1	adjective - free from outside control
support /səˈpɔrt/ A1	verb - to assist or back someone or something
change /tʃeɪndʒ/ A1	verb - to make or become different
fight /faɪt/ A1	verb - to struggle or contend
community /kəˈmjuːnɪti/ A2	noun - a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common
strategy /ˈstrætɪdʒi/ B2	noun - a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term aim
excite /ɪkˈsaɪt/ B1	verb - to make someone feel very enthusiastic
listen /ˈlɪsən/ A1	verb - to pay attention to sound or speech
acknowledge /əkˈnɒlɪdʒ/ B2	verb - to accept or admit the existence or truth of something
democracy /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ B1	noun - a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state
engage /ɪnˈɡeɪdʒ/ B1	verb - to involve or participate in
qualified /ˈkwɒlɪfaɪd/ B2	adjective - having the necessary skills or meeting the required standards
concerned /kənˈsɜrnd/ B1	adjective - worried or troubled about something
impressive /ɪmˈprɛsɪv/ B2	adjective - evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill
candidate /ˈkændɪdət/ B1	noun - a person seeking or nominated for a position
moral /ˈmɒrəl/ B2	adjective - concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior
vulnerable /ˈvʌlnərəbəl/ C1	adjective - susceptible to physical or emotional attack or harm

Key Grammar Structures

• She was the press secretary, the person who turns up in the White House every day and whose face becomes very familiar to viewers of television as the person who is putting the points that the administration wants to put to the American people and indeed to the wider world.

  ➔ Relative Clauses

  ➔ This sentence uses relative clauses to provide additional information about the noun. For example, 'who turns up' defines 'the person', while 'whose face becomes' shows possession, and 'that the administration wants' relates to 'the points'. Relative pronouns like 'who', 'whose', and 'that' connect these clauses to convey complex descriptions.

• She has written a book. The book is called Independent, a look inside the broken white house, outside the party line.

  ➔ Present Perfect Simple

  ➔ The present perfect simple 'has written' indicates an action completed in the past with relevance to the present, without specifying when. It's used for achievements or completed actions. Note the passive-like title 'is called' as a stative verb describing a name.

• What my take is is that the party is lost. I feel as if the party has lost their soul.

  ➔ Reported Speech and Conditional Comparison

  ➔ This uses reported speech to convey the speaker's opinion indirectly. 'As if' introduces a hypothetical or comparative clause, similar to a conditional, suggesting a metaphor ('the party has lost their soul'). Pronoun reference note: 'their' is singular here for gender neutrality.

• We should stand on moral ground and really really really try to do our best to protect people who feel vulnerable.

  ➔ Modal Verbs for Advice and Obligation

  ➔ 'Should' is a modal verb expressing advice or obligation. It suggests a recommended course of action (standing on moral ground). The infinitive 'to protect' follows after verbs like 'try', and the relative clause 'who feel vulnerable' specifies 'people'.

• When you hear things like that about communities that you participate in, that you're part in, then you feel like you're not representing and no one's fighting for you.

  ➔ Inversion for Emphasis and Subjunctive Mood

  ➔ Conditional inversion like 'When ... then' is used for emphasis, inverting subject and verb ('feel like you're not'). The subjunctive 'no one's fighting' implies a hypothetical or desired state. Relative clauses embedded ('that you're part in') add layers of reference.

• It's not about having a debate. Don't have the debate. Just say where you stand and move forward and focus on things that will move the country forward.

  ➔ Imperative Mood and Gerunds

  ➔ Imperatives like 'Don't have the debate' give direct commands. Gerunds ('having', 'moving') are used after prepositions or as subjects ('things that will move'). Parallel structures with 'Just say ... and ... and ...' create emphasis.

• We should not go down a rabbit hole because Republicans are telling us don't say woke or or this issue or that issue.

  ➔ Subjunctive in Reported Commands and Parallel Lists

  ➔ Reported command 'telling us don't say' uses subjunctive for indirect advice. 'Or ... or' creates parallel list ('woke or this issue or that issue'), emphasizing variety. Conjunction 'because' links reason.

• You have to be hopeful in the moment that we're in. And she ran a fantastic campaign. She just did.

  ➔ Obligatory Modals and Result Clauses with 'Just'

  ➔ 'Have to' expresses obligation or necessity. 'Just did' uses 'just' for immediacy or emphasis in past simple. Contrasts with future hopes ('have to be hopeful').

• We can't forget the facts that existed during that time in making that decision.

  ➔ Negative Modals and Complex Relative Clauses

  ➔ Negative modal 'can't' with base verb 'forget' shows impossibility. Relative clause 'that existed during that time' modifies 'facts', and prepositional phrase 'in making that decision' adds context, showing embedded structure.

• We have a president who is already right now in 2025 is saying that he wants his justice department to monitor elections that are happening just this year.

  ➔ Complex Relative Clauses and Future Reference

  ➔ Relative clause 'who is ... saying' qualifies 'president', with embedded relative 'elections that are happening'. 'In 2025' refers to future time, creating forward projection. Nested structure shows advanced syntax.