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Lyrics & Translation

[English]

China's President XI Jinping, held a massive military parade

to mark 80 years since the end of World War two

and the country's victory in it.

But it was much more than a parade. Vladimir Putin was there.

The leader of Russia and North Korea's Kim Jong un.

It was the first time all three men have met together, and that's a big deal.

But what sort of alliance is this,

and how should Western leaders respond? I'm Celia Hatton.

This is the global news podcast on the BBC World Service.

Well, to help explain all of this,

I'm joined by four names from around the BBC.

We have Stephen McDonell, Jeanne McKenzie, Olga Ivashina and with me

in the studio, Mikey Kaye. Jeanne, I'm going to start with you,

and I'm going to ask you the question that I want everybody really to answer.

Can you introduce yourself and then also tell us

what's the one moment that stood out for you

from the events that we've been seeing in Beijing.

So I'm the BBC's Seoul correspondent, which means I'm based here in Seoul

in South Korea, but I cover North and South Korea.

And so for me, watching this parade, the moment I guess that really stood out

for me was just right at the beginning

when you had Kim Jong UN walking through Tiananmen Square,

right at the front with XI Jinping

and Vladimir Putin, the three of them together,

just because, you know, this is a leader that has been so isolated.

And suddenly he seemed almost elevated to the same level

of these two major world players.

And just seeing them, seeing him on that kind of stage

and given that prominence by the Chinese was quite staggering.

Absolutely.

And Olga, your thoughts, what's the moment that that's stuck in your mind?

I'm covering everything related to Russia.

Senior correspondent at BBC Russian Service.

The moment which really stuck with me was actually a day before

when Putin was welcomed by XI Jinping.

And this is the moment which was broadcasted by Russian TV many,

many times on repeat afterwards.

It was Mr. Putin walking on a red carpet just through the barrage

of flags of of the other countries who were invited by XI Jinping as well.

And this was exactly the message, both internally and externally,

because the West, the Western countries were talking so much

about isolation of Russia, about sanctions,

diplomatic blockade, economic blockade.

But here he is, Mr. Putin walking

on the red carpet again through the barrage of flags,

surrounded by countries who are happy to talk to him,

who see him not who at least publicly perceive him, not as a war criminal,

but as a leader of a mighty country who they want to have dealings with.

That's a very powerful message, which Mr.

Putin wants to reiterate again and again.

Okay, so that was the view from Moscow. Let's go over to Beijing.

Stephen, you've been in the middle of this all for days now.

What's been a big moment in your mind?

I'm one of the China correspondents based in Beijing.

I've been a reporter in this city for two decades,

so I've seen quite a few of these parades.

You know, it's it is amazing.

Even though these things happen again and again,

they never cease to, uh, well, make you laugh because.

So this parade, it's not for ordinary people to go to.

In fact, for several blocks back from the main east west drag of Beijing,

you couldn't get anywhere near it unless you've got special permission.

And there's some poor foreigner there.

Somewhere down the road, he and he can see the vehicles coming through.

He's trying to take some photos with his camera.

And there are these two plainclothes goons standing in front of him,

blocking his camera, but also filming themselves the parade at the same time.

So they're blocking him while they're filming the parade,

and the whole thing is being telecast anyway, it's on television.

Why on earth would you be trying to block

this poor bloke from getting a couple of photos?

But it's just the ridiculousness of how things happen in China.

Sometimes the word goes out to these more lowly, um, you know,

party officials, and they just do what they've got to do,

no matter how ridiculous it is. Stephen, you make me laugh.

I mean, you and I have known each other for decades.

I mean, back to when I was a correspondent in Beijing as well.

And I remember during these moments of these parades

being sort of sequestered blocks and blocks away

and having to watch the whole event on TV, but you could sort of hear

the tanks rumbling by and the aircraft going overhead.

I mean, it really was kind of an amazing thing to cover.

I'm a bit jealous that you're doing it from China.

One other thing while you mention it.

The funny thing, of course, I've been having practice runs for this.

And so there we are. Like on the weekend.

You're sitting there Saturday night and you're you're flattened.

It's all shaking because the tanks are coming down the road

and we stick our heads out the window and they're practicing.

And then you get this knock on the door from the cops.

Don't take photos, don't take photos. But I mean, goodness knows why.

Because, like I say, it is all going to be on television anyway.

Ah, amazing.

Um. All right. Well, Mikey Kay, great to have you here with me.

It's nice to have a face to, to look at directly.

Um, you know, you have a completely different perspective on this,

I would guess.

What is the moment that made you sit up and pay attention

when you were watching this spectacle taking place in China's capital?

Yeah, it was it was pretty remarkable, actually.

I run the BBC news security brief on the channel.

I've got 30 years in counterterrorism, counterinsurgency, ten combat tours,

20 years in the military, and then ten reporting from war zones.

Um, and what I, what I really focused on was, yes, there's obviously

a big uptick in terms of having these three leaders sat watching this parade,

which to me tells me there's an evolution

of an alliance that's occurring here right under the West nose.

And it's been happening for some time. But the big thing for me was

just the sheer volume of military capability that was on display.

And the bits that really interest me is not necessarily

the legacy equipment that they've got, but what's new, what's out there.

So, for example, these these autonomous drones that sit on the

on the wing of manned fast jets, um,

the size of these intercontinental ballistic missiles

that now have the capability of reaching the US.

And that's all a statement, you know, that's all that's all there on purpose.

None of this is by mistake.

And you look at the sheer numbers of the the People's Liberation Army

in terms of numbers of troops, numbers of tanks, artillery.

Um, you look at the aircraft in the air,

um, you know, Russia, Russia, China and,

and North Korea are cementing something here,

which the West has relied on for a long time in terms of an alliance.

But when it comes to alliances, you can sort of see fragmentations

in where the West are now going with NATO,

which is, uh, which inception was in 1949.

And now we see a strength building an alliance

which which isn't going to be good for the West.

I mean, it's amazing, right?

We're entering into this new era of military parades,

where superpowers like the US and China are putting all their hardware,

all their toys on display for us to see.

I mean, what's it like to see those things just literally being paraded in front of our eyes?

Yeah. Well, I mean, Donald Trump attempted it a few months ago,

and I think he's he's probably regretting that now when you look

at the size and sort of spectacle that,

um, that China has just put on versus, you know,

what the, what the US did a couple of months ago.

I mean, the UK would never do something like that.

I do think there is sometimes strength in silence.

Um, and I don't I don't want to sort of, you know, shock the pigeons

at this point because, yeah, the volume is,

is significant and it's, it's quite startling.

But when it comes to sort of real analysis of military capability,

you've just got to look at the technology inside what you're seeing.

And I think that's where the huge differences occur.

And we can we can come on to that a little bit later.

So those are the parades. And all of you have given a great overview of

what it's like to witness a parade, and also the messaging that could lie

behind this parade and others that you've seen.

But I want to focus for a moment away from the hardware and and onto the men,

mostly men who were watching this parade.

The invited guests and three in particular have really caught our attention.

We've got XI Jinping, the leader of China,

we've got Vladimir Putin, the leader of Russia,

and we've got Kim Jong un from North Korea.

I just wonder if we can turn to you, Stephen. First, you know,

to that end, I wonder if you can give us a sense of XI Jinping and and

how he's seen domestically and also abroad what he was trying to achieve

by hosting this massive global event in front of the TV cameras.

Well, a C Jinping is interesting in a way,

in that he's a real mystery man.

I mean, he gives very little away.

People don't know what music he likes, really.

Does he play sport? Apparently he plays ping pong or something.

I've never seen him do it. Um, you never see him crack a joke?

Do you know what I mean? He barely cracks a smile.

And when you compare him to other Chinese leaders like Jiang Zemin

and, um, Deng Xiaoping sticking cowboy hats on and carrying on,

and I mean Jiang Zemin showing off his other languages, etc.,

he, I mean, Hu Jintao just before she was pretty wooden.

And she I mean, he's not given anything away,

but one thing he is and that's feared.

And I think he probably likes that because when he came in, there was

this huge anti-corruption crackdown.

He used it to take out all his political enemies.

And so within the party, you know, man,

no, you know, no one's going to really take it up to him.

And I think part of the criticism of this style of leadership

is that he's surrounded by yes men and they are mostly all men.

The Politburo Standing Committee, for example, no women there,

and he's appointed his old friends to the Politburo Standing Committee.

The other factions aren't represented there anymore.

So that's kind of what he's like. Um,

as for ordinary people, well, they call him XI Dada.

It's kind of an affectionate name for him.

Um, I guess it it it sounds it's, I guess in one way you could think of it

as, like, Big XI, but it's more like Uncle XI or something like that.

It's kind of affectionate. Um, while we're talking about it,

I should say ordinary Chinese people have some nicknames

for the other leaders you're speaking about.

Um, tell us please. In Sampang is a beauty.

Kim Fatty Kim the third or Kim Fatty the third?

It should be. It's a reference to him being the third, Kim.

And of course, the size of him, etcetera. And even here,

Chinese government officials calling him that secret little sampang.

You know, Kim Fatty the third, um,

and for Vladimir Putin, um, it's um, poo daddy,

but which is like calling him emperor, Emperor Putin?

He doesn't get it as much as, um, as Jin Sang.

But everyone calls Kim Jong UN Jin sambong here.

Not little kids to probably people on the Politburo.

Let's turn then to hear about Fattie Kim the third, for lack of a better term.

As some some in China might call him mean Gene.

Take us through, uh, the spectacle of Kim Jong UN arriving in Beijing.

And really, what he's been trying to achieve during his time in China.

Yeah. I mean, look, as Stephen said, Kim, the third is because,

of course, he is the third, uh,

in this family dynasty of rulers that have ruled North Korea

since sort of just a few years after the Second World War.

Uh, so it was his grandfather first, then it was his father,

and then he took over when he was only 27 years old,

because his father died quite unexpectedly.

And so he had to consolidate power really quite quickly.

And it was sort of people talked about whether he was going to be

quite a weak leader, because he really hadn't been sort of groomed enough.

He hadn't been put in the public eye because his father died so unexpectedly.

But actually he proved himself to be remarkably ruthless,

and he consolidated power very effectively,

purging anybody who would rival him, even his uncle.

And so he has really continued this authoritarian dictatorship

that North Korea has, um, you know,

probably one of the most authoritarian countries in the world, right, where

people it's people are more restricted than anywhere else in the world.

Um, now, in terms of what he wanted to achieve in Beijing, I mean,

because of the ruthlessness of the Kim dictatorship,

North Korea is an incredibly isolated country.

It has been treated as a pariah not only by the West,

but by countries like China and Russia in the past as well,

and and almost completely isolated.

Now, some of that has been Kim's doing, but,

um, it's left him very few places to turn, uh,

because North Korea is just now incredibly heavily sanctioned.

Um, but what we've seen over the last couple of years

is him forge this relationship with Vladimir Putin, right?

Because he has been supporting Putin's war in Ukraine,

and that really helped him come out of isolation because

the Covid years were really, really difficult for North Korea,

because Kim essentially shut all the borders and they were so scared

about Covid getting in. This is such a poor and isolated country

with absolutely no medical system that could have coped with it.

Uh, that kind of basically brought the economy to its knees.

So then Putin gave Kim this opportunity to come out of isolation.

The war in Ukraine was like this lottery ticket essentially for Kim Jong un,

because he was able to start selling Putin these vast amounts of weapons

and sending all these soldiers and getting huge amounts of money in return.

Um, but Kim never likes to be reliant on one person, and

he has become increasingly reliant on this relationship with Vladimir Putin.

And, you know, with discussions about the war ending and things.

And it's been quite a transactional relationship,

albeit a very lucrative one.

I think Kim's mind has very much been on, well, what happens next?

And so it was very unusual actually, for him to go to Beijing.

This is the first time we've ever seen him go to, uh,

an international event like this with many world leaders.

He's only ever really left the country to go and meet leaders like XI or like Putin one on one.

He does this so rarely. Everything's very controlled.

It's very calculated. So putting him on a stage

like we saw him yesterday, that was a big risk for the North Koreans.

But the calculation I think was twofold.

One was because he is aware that he needs to try to repair and rekindle

his relationship with China, which has slightly fallen by the wayside

because of his relationship with Vladimir Putin.

And he is aware that he needs now more economic support from the Chinese.

He needs to keep XI onside. She obviously wanted him to be there.

The invitation went out. Um,

and then I think there was a calculation that actually I am sure

he would have got assurances in advance.

Stephen can tell me otherwise that he would be given

this prominent position, that he would have gone on that basis.

So a chance to really try to establish himself

as this kind of powerful statesman alongside XI,

alongside Putin, you know, at the helm of these world leaders

gathering in order to send a message to the West,

but particularly in the United States, which is North Korea's main adversary,

that actually he isn't isolated anymore.

He's in this strong position. He has the backing of XI and Putin,

and therefore he's he's basically buying himself leverage

if he is ever to try to negotiate with the West again.

You're absolutely right. As they were walking along together,

it was like a phalanx of leaders in order of priority,

XI Jinping at the front and Vladimir Putin on one side

and Kim Jong un on the other.

Before we move on, Gina, I want to ask you, though,

about someone that Kim Jong UN brought along with him.

You know, with the with the nod to North Korea's future.

I think she might be the youngest member

of an official delegation who's been visiting Beijing this week.

Can you tell me about her? Yeah.

So we were all pretty surprised at Celia when we saw these photos that came out

when Kim was getting off the train, when it entered Beijing,

because his daughter was standing behind him.

His young daughter. Now, we don't know how old she is.

We think she might be around about 12. Um,

but he, we think is grooming her to be his successor.

So he introduced her to the public about three years ago.

And we've just seen her grow in stature ever since.

So she first attended this missile launch with him back in 2022.

And ever since, she's gone to more and more high profile events

and she's been given more and more prominent placement next

to her father, even in some cases being positioned

in these official photographs in front of her father.

So it seems quite clear that he is intending for her to take over,

or at least the South Korean intelligence services are saying they think that's their best bet.

Um, there was a lot of discussion around, well, why on earth

would he be introducing her to the world when she's only 12 years old?

Um, or younger when he actually first did it.

But if we look at the way that Kim Jong UN came to power, as I said,

which was very rushed, uh, his father died suddenly.

He wasn't really kind of consolidated and built up in this way.

And he very, very quickly had to consolidate his power by being very ruthless.

He had an incredibly hard time, we imagine.

And the explanation is that actually, he knows how miserable that is,

and he doesn't want that for his eventual successor.

Now, let's turn our attention to a man who's been leading Russia for years now.

Vladimir Putin's been smiling a lot in Beijing at the moment.

Take us through his motivations

and what he's been trying to achieve by his visit to China.

Yeah. Over these few days, we were discussing it with colleagues.

And it's interesting, you know, to just just to hear

how the both internal and external messages for all three leaders, China

and North Korea and Russia, resonate with each other.

Sometimes they are completely identical. It was interesting for me to see

how XI Jinping was trying to position himself as a world leader, etc..

Mr. Putin says exactly that, that he is now a leader of this alternative world,

this alternative to the West reality, leader of the global South,

sort of the gatherer of the global South.

That's exactly what Mr. Putin was aiming for.

I mean, his ambitions were bigger, uh, initially,

but he had to, I guess, scale them down a little bit.

So now he what he definitely wants is the new old world order.

So he is not happy with the world order where West prevails. Uh,

many times in his interviews, he said that he's a fan of the Soviet Union,

that the, you know, the, the end of the Soviet Union was, as he said,

the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.

So he definitely tries to rebuild it in some shape or form.

And, uh, the shape which works now,

it seems, is building is, is gathering the global south, uh,

and sort of putting it as, as auntie does,

sort of just just as a counterbalance to the global West.

And that's exactly what he is trying to project.

And yeah, in Russian media, he was being shown as, as,

as the leader of that gathering, even though he was visiting, uh, China.

Of course. Russia. Russia wants to show that he's, uh,

he's the the biggest mastermind behind it.

Mike, we haven't heard from you in a little while.

We've we've just heard kind of the individual overview

of what these three men were bringing to these events in Beijing, what

was going on through their minds and what was on their individual agendas.

But looking at the big picture, the military picture,

you know, we have three nuclear armed dictators all standing in a row,

seemingly forging some new alliance.

Really? I mean, what's your assessment of that?

What does it really mean?

Yeah, I spent 20 years in the British military on on many NATO operations

and threat assessments at the tactical and strategic level

really formed a big part of the way that you conducted operations.

And for me, a key driver within this evolving alliance are

the individual country threat assessments

and what they might be facing at the moment.

So, for example, I think the person that is driving this, the country

that is driving this reliance at the moment is Putin and Russia.

So, for example, Russia has outsourced a significant amount

of its drone capability to China.

Um, when you look at how many drones are being utilised on both sides,

but particularly Russia against Ukraine, over 6000in the month of July alone.

So that's significant and that's hurting Ukraine hard.

Um, if you then look at the, uh, reliance on Putin with Kim,

um, Kim has provided over 15000 troops that were deployed inside Russia

on the Ukrainian border at the moment, not just troops, ballistic missiles,

for example, that have been launched on Kyiv.

So that for me, is the two key reliance drivers between Putin

and XI when it comes to Kim.

What is he getting out of this in terms of threat assessment?

Well, there's not a major threat assessment, you know,

a real time against North Korea at the moment.

However, this alliance will be able to improve Kim's standing

in terms of the way that XI and Putin treat him.

So, you know, Kim is providing troops inside inside Russia.

He'll be able to be able to say to XI, look, we can support you with.

He's got 1.3 million troops, for example.

He's got a lot of military capability in terms of ballistic missiles.

Um, how good that is. That's another question.

But in terms of volume, that's what Kim can do.

So I think that is the thing that is driving and involving this alliance

at the moment are the individual threat assessments.

And when it comes to XI, specifically,

Taiwan is a is a is a massive threat assessment,

because if if China wants to be aggressive towards Taiwan,

it knows obviously the US military why an $870 billion defense budget?

11 aircraft carriers potential for home basing in Japan and South Korea.

You know, that's going to be a significant problem for XI.

So I think she is now using this relationship to be able to lean

on North Korea if he needs to,

and lean on on Putin and Russia if he needs to.

So I think there's a number of components there

where this alliance piece is, is beneficial for all three.

So this alliance, though, I mean, Jean mentioned it earlier,

it was such an amazing scene to see these three men

all in a row, really with with Russia and China,

those two leaders treating Kim Jong un almost as if he was an equal.

If you're Donald Trump sitting in the white House,

I can't believe we haven't mentioned him until now.

But, you know, would you see that apparent alliance

as an increased threat?

Do you think that that threat, that risk assessment has really gone up

in the minds of of Americans and other Western countries, NATO countries.

I mean, in the eyes of Donald Trump, who's a, you know,

has transactional foreign policy, who's very much taken

an isolationist approach in terms of stepping away from NATO.

Um, it may not resonate with them,

but I can tell you it will certainly resonate with the leaders in Europe

and the members of NATO outside of the US, for sure.

You know, NATO's inception was in 1949,

and and there has been relative global peace, you know, for over 75 years.

The idea that NATO is now being fragmented in terms of Trump's lack

of reliance in supporting NATO when it comes to the fight against Russia

in Ukraine, you know, that's that's huge.

Um, and he'll also be looking at, you know, Pete Hegseth,

who's the defense secretary. Um, and JD Vance have been very aggressive

in terms of the posturing on Taiwan.

And so, um, you know, if I was Donald Trump, if I was JD Vance,

if I was Pete Hegseth, I'd be looking at this alliance

and it would be playing a huge factor into any military contingency planning

on how they might counter any aggression from China on Taiwan,

because that's going to be a naval sea based operation primarily.

You know, those 11 aircraft carriers that the US have

will be absolutely critical in any countering of military aggression

from China in terms of power projection.

You've then got four bases in Okinawa.

They will be absolutely critical for use by Donald Trump

to counter any aggression that then is going to pull in Japan.

And so there's all of these counter consequences that,

you know, if I was if I was in the cabinet in the US,

I would be directing military generals to be working up a lot

of counter contingency planning proposals,

courses of action that now see not just China entering the aggression,

but a reliance of China on North Korea and Russia.

And then that sort of expands the military capability and

what the US has to do to counter that in a really significant way.

Do you know, I'd like to bring you in here. You know,

just to reflect on what Mike has just been saying,

you know, he referenced Kim Jong un several times

and North Korea's position. Can you reflect a little bit on,

on on how North Korea's military position has changed,

even just in the last couple of years?

Kim Jong UN has really prioritized building up North Korea's nuclear program. Right.

The reason that North Korea is so isolated is so poor.

It's such an international pariah. It's because it developed,

um, nuclear weapons against international treaties.

And that is why it's been so heavily sanctioned.

But Kim Jong UN has really prioritized growing

North Korea's military, um, program and nuclear program.

So in 2021, he set out this five year plan

for all the things that he wanted to achieve over the last five years.

And he has almost completed it.

So, uh, he, he has sort of forged ahead,

regardless of all these sanctions on developing

very powerful ballistic missiles that can carry nuclear warheads.

And continuing his, um, building up his stockpile of nuclear warheads.

Um, and so North Korea is in a stronger position

militarily really, than it has ever been.

And yet the sanctions aren't working because it's now getting this cover

from countries like Russia and China,

which are in turn just allowing it to build its nuclear program even further.

Um, can I just add to that? I mean, there are three key components

that are required to develop a nuclear capability.

The first one is, um, having the ability to enrich uranium or plutonium.

The second one is to build a warhead. And the third one is a delivery system.

In order to put that warhead with the enriched uranium and plutonium onto a target.

And at the moment, in order for North Korea to become a threat to the US,

that needs an intercontinental ballistic missile capability.

And that's the that's the long pole in the tent, if you like.

That's the bottleneck in terms of what North Korea is facing

on the nuclear front. Thanks for watching this video.

And for more in-depth explainers like this one,

just search for the Global News podcast on the BBC World Service

online or wherever you get your podcasts from.

Key Vocabulary

Vocabulary	Meanings
parade /pəˈreɪd/ B1	noun - a public display or procession
leader /ˈliːdər/ A2	noun - a person who leads or commands a group
alliance /əˈlaɪəns/ B2	noun - a union or association formed for mutual benefit
military /ˈmɪlɪtəri/ B1	adjective - relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces noun - the armed forces of a country
isolation /ˌaɪsəˈleɪʃən/ B2	noun - the process or fact of isolating or being isolated
sanctions /ˈsæŋkʃənz/ B2	noun - measures taken by a state or international community to punish another state
power /ˈpaʊər/ A2	noun - the ability to exert influence or control
nuclear /ˈnjuːkliər/ B2	adjective - relating to the nucleus of an atom or nuclear energy
missile /ˈmɪsaɪl/ B2	noun - an object that is forcibly projected at a target
war /wɔːr/ A1	noun - a state of armed conflict between different nations or states
president /ˈprɛzɪdənt/ A2	noun - an elected head of a republican state
moment /ˈmoʊmənt/ A2	noun - a very brief period of time
message /ˈmɛsɪdʒ/ A2	noun - a communication or statement conveyed to someone
country /ˈkʌntri/ A1	noun - the land of a person's birth or citizenship
world /wɜːrld/ A1	noun - the earth, together with all of its countries and peoples
equipment /ɪˈkwɪpmənt/ A2	noun - the necessary items for a particular purpose
capability /ˌkeɪpəˈbɪləti/ B2	noun - the power or ability to do something
troops /truːps/ B2	noun - soldiers collectively
economy /ɪˈkɑːnəmi/ A2	noun - the management of the resources of a community
threat /θrɛt/ B1	noun - a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage